Things Better in the Past

[NoisySnail]

It is common for younger people to state benefits of the past that only applied to middle class or better off working class people. Free university when hardly anyone from very poor backgrounds attended.

But they never talk about the benefits of the past that poor people like myself benefitted from - presumably because they did not know about them. So I thought it would be good to talk about those. I am thinking of the seventies and eighties.

Unemployment benefit - It used to be very easy to sign on. If you sign on now for Universal Credit because you are not working, you have to apply for loads and loads of jobs every week. Back then you only had to sign a form that you were looking for work. No one asked you for proof.
If you were unemployed for 12 months then you would be sent on a YTS placement. If you were coming up to 12 months you were sensible and applied for a decent one. There were ones that were sheer exploitation by private companies. But there were also really interesting ones with charities.

Private rents - Rents were cheaper than mortgage payments. It was buy to let that changed this. But before the laws changed so banks could offer buy to let mortgages, landlords always owned their houses outright. And during the seventies and some of the eighties you even had rent officers who would visit and if they thought the rent was too high, they could pressure the landlord to reduce the rent or ultimately go to court and get a lower rent set.

Guarantors - This did not really exist for renters. They started coming in for students in the nineties and spread to many landlords. But in the 70s and 80s the idea did not really exist.

Food Vouchers - Foodbanks did not really exist. But the equivalent of the DWP used to hand out food vouchers if they accepted you needed them.

Further Education - Local colleges used to run masses of courses that were free or heavily subsidised. Everything from qualifications to hobby classes. The hobby classes did not need to lead to a qualification. There would be lots of cake decorating, woodworking, flower arranging, and learn holiday French courses. My DH attended a basic car maintenance course that taught people simple repairs they could make themselves.

Free School Meals: Where we lived one secondary school in each area provided free school meals over the school holidays. Not all children entitled to them took advantage, but the option was there.

Nationalised Industries: Water, gas, electric, telephone and transport were all nationalised. It was not perfect, but it was cheaper.

There were things that were bad that have got better, But can you can think of others that benefitted poorer people?

We lived in a caravan,a small metal box, not todays fancy park homes,then bought a small unmodernised 2 bed house. Kitchen was so small it had sink, cupboard under,cooker and fridge. No central heating,no double glazing. That was 1975, always had more than 2 wages, I worked nights to ex H days and visa versa,he had 2 jobs I had several. 1982 bought new 2 bed maisonette, divided one bedroom. Mortgage rate went from 12 to 16% in 18 months. Added on the maximum years,then I had 4 jobs. Full time hospital, nights, nursing home, agency and a cleaning job, just to keep the roof over our head. One old banger, I had a bicycle,seat for youngest DS,or walked everywhere. No free childcare,6 weeks maternity pay after giving birth.

When my MIL was in labour with my husband, the GP delivering him would light a cigarette for her and have one himself, in between contractions.

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I was a single parent on benefits.. l worked part time.. but l could only earn £10 on top of my benefits so £10 was taken off my benefit because l earned £20 as a school dinner lady.
You couldn't get child maintenance on top of your benefits either.. you were only allowed a certain amount of benefits to live on..( Income support) .
I remember myself and my daughters all in one bed to keep warm.. having beans and chips a lot...sometimes saying I'm not hungry so my kids could have more.. luckily l got a free lunch at work.
We played board games a lot when the electric ran out and couldn't put the telly on.
This was the days of Tony Blair.

Accepting unconditionally the downsides and the societal differences of the 60s/70s/80s, there are 2 standout 'betters' for me:

1. We walked everywhere and from a very early age. Fewer cars meant we got the bus or trooped off to school in big gangs, the earliest unaccompanied by adult trip to school I did was about 8 years old, the bus stopped right outside the school. We also used to go off and play in the fields, cycle off to friends and relatives, go swimming. When I got older I still had to make my own way home on the bus because my parents wouldn't think of picking me up. It was much healthier and active than today.
2. Although university was free, parents still had to make up the grants for living costs which were way beyond a lot of households. There was still the view that university wasn't for us folks. But there were so many more opportunities with day release and night classes at techs and polys that aren't available now. It was hard work doing a degree one day and night a week as well as working. But you got a good qualification at the end of it, plus experience in the field and a wage. Plus there were so many more fun night classes.

Looking back, this country seemed emptier and quieter when I was a kid. That's one thing I really do wish I could have back. There are just too many people. And it's the poor who suffer. Those with money can withdraw into big houses, with land and silence around them. The poor, however, get jammed into flats, or squeezed onto new estates.

In 1960, there were three billion humans. Today there are eight billion. It's a staggering increase. In 1980, there were 56 million people in the UK. Today it's 67 million. The population of my home town has nearly doubled since I was born. Basically, I live in a market town with the population of a small city. The noise and sense of suffocation is horrible. The traffic is now so bad I hardly go out. On a beautiful spring day, for example, I wouldn't bother to visit a local beauty spot – no point, I'd never get parked.

I grew up in a deprived part of the uk, my family where working class, but worked, some of my friends from the area didn’t and I remember the stigma and poverty they lived in ( we weren’t wealthy either). There has been a slide back into it in recent years, there’s just more layers of intentional bureaucracy to make it harder to access benefits.
This came up on my YouTube feed the other day for anyone looking back on the past with rosy specs. We’ll be back here, if we’re not already with this lot in government soon.

I was at University in the 80s and despite graduating into Thatcher’s recession, there was still a feeling you could get a decent job eventually & make a life. And you could. My DH &I’s shitty starter salaries were enough to buy a cute stone cottage in a picturesque village. Fuck knows what that would cost now, but it would definitely not be affordable for people like us starting out on education/public sector wages.

Life was easier for young people starting out, you could dick about at Uni, degree class was less important as you knew you would get something even if you weren’t a high flier. There is much more pressure now.

@crumbledog thanks for posting that. My childhood was in worse housing conditions.

I left school in 81 and all things considered, I had it great.
Growing up my parents owned their own home (as did their parents), we had (UK) holidays, there was always plenty of food available (Ddad was a keen gardener and his veg garden was huge), central heating (coal fired until 78) and as kids we were had plenty of activities (Scouts & Guides, music, sports etc). We all either got jobs straight out of school or went to uni and tellingly, we all had PT jobs while still at school.

Downsides.
Outside (unheated) toilets were still very much a thing (especially at school), shiny toilet paper, corporal punishment, measles (I had it as a child), playgrounds with concrete surfaces, broken glass and white dog poo.

My parents (so called baby boomers) did not have it all their own way.
My Dmum worked FT until she was married and then she did PT work. Rationing was still about in the 50's, National Service, bombsites, cars were very expensive, making your own clothes from patterns was very much a thing, there were many things that would kill you that nowadays are nonexistent or easily treated.

Personally I think comparing different times is a bit pointless as nothing changes and too many people look through rose tinted specs.

Some things were better, some things were worse. It's a great shame that we couldn't just gradually improve everything.

The biggest "loss" I think is compliance with laws and rules. We've sleep walked into a place where far too many people see laws/rules as optional after a few decades of weak policing and weak compliance in so many areas.

Particularly traffic laws with so many people ignoring red lights, speed limits, seat belt laws, mobile phone laws, parking restrictions, not having motor insurance, not having mot nor vehicle tax, unroadworthy vehicles, etc. All the compliance seems to have been moved to "remote" such as bus lane cameras, car park cameras, speed cameras, etc - if you can't enforce by camera, it's not enforced. Police only act after an accident etc.

Same with tax laws. Pretty much now voluntary for people to declare their gains/rental income on let properties, or self employment/freelance "gig" income, etc. HMRC have broadly disappeared up their own backsides and don't do routine "book-keeping checks" anymore to the extent they used to do in the 80s and 90s. HMRC fine you automatic fines for being a day late with a return but nothing if the information you declare on the return is nonsense as they check only a tiny proportion.

Lawlessness is getting worse and worse as each decade passes and no one seems to have the balls to want to do anything about it. I genuinely think we need to start looking at something similar to America where you get automatic jail time after a certain number of offences, a bit like, was it New York's, 3 strikes and you're out. We need something that will act as a genuine deterrent to all types of law breaking, whether motoring, public order, theft, or even tax evasion.

@HeadNorth

Life was easier for young people starting out, you could dick about at Uni, degree class was less important as you knew you would get something even if you weren’t a high flier. There is much more pressure now.

Aye, I'd agree with you there. When I was at school two As and a B in A-levels would have got you into Cambridge. Now you'd be lucky to do basket weaving at Neasden Poly with that.

DD is doing her A-levels. No lie, she must be doing 10x times the work I did. She doesn't go anywhere. Every spare moment is on studying, because the narrative is we are lazy and everyone else in the world is smarter and more driven. So there's a lot of pressure if you want to go to a half decent uni. We haven't broached the subject of getting a job afterwards yet - or paying off the debt.

And they wonder why young people have MH problems.

When I was at school two As and a B in A-levels would have got you into Cambridge. Now you'd be lucky to do basket weaving at Neasden Poly with that.

I do think 'grade inflation' has something to do with that. I don't mean that young people work any less hard at their exams, just that now 'A' grades seem to be not the exceptional result they once were.

With respect, if your parents could afford to support you through Uni, you’re probably not in the same demographic as OP is talking about on this thread. Almost everyone I know started work straight out of school at 16, because their Mums needed the board money. There was no Uni for the working class in the 80s. It was a pipe dream.

80s girl , working class

I went to uni - got a grant enough to live on, dole in the holidays ( lived in the north east where summer jobs were for unemployed miners )

Got good degree which has Set me up for life

@TheThingIsYeah Cambridge had its own application process. By the time people submitted their ucas forms it was too late to apply to Cambridge. It was a not so subtle way of keeping working class people out.

Yes it has become like that