Antique? Worth anything? How do I find out?

[liveforchocolate]

I wonder if any of you are knowledgeable regarding this please. I recently found, in my late Mother's safe, a small box with the name of a silversmiths on the front, (in Wales I think but I can't find them online at all), and it contains 3 lovely miniature silver chairs, maybe from a doll's house. I am guessing they originally belonged to my Grandmother. How do I go about finding out if they are valuable? (they were in the safe), or are they something fairly standard for a collector of dolls houses? I know nothing about that. Thank you for any advice or help.

(there are similar items on google/ebay, but how do I specifically find out if these are 'special')? Thank you.

No help but they sound lovely, I'd love to see a photo! I'd take them to a jewellers or an antique shop and ask, under the guise of maybe selling them (even if you don't want to sell them) although of course they will put in a low offer compared to their selling price.

They clearly need quite a polish. The one on the right weighs considerably less than the other two.

You could contact a reputable auction house.

Auction house is best, they’ll give you an honest valuation & will have more experience of many different items. A jeweller may not know much about silver miniatures so will probably give you a value on the silver scrappage weight & an antique shop/ dealer has a vested interest to give a lower value in the chance that they can buy them from you & sell for a profit. An auction house will be honest & if they sell them for you it’s in their best interest to get you the highest price they can & earn the commission.

Thanks for the photo, they are so cute! I would keep them 😁

EBay is really useful, especially the advanced options on settings, to see what sold and for how much. See with a magnifying glass if there are any silver marks, solid silver should have that and you can look up the symbols online. I can see a few for sale on eBay.

Some auction houses run free valuation days. Have a look online and see if you can find one that does.

Definitely seek expert opinion if you want to know a 'value.' I'm no expert but previously researched them a bit.
I'm a generalist maker, and was asked to reupholster some similar ones (but probably bigger scale) that were used as pin cushions and had been destroyed by mice /moths. Those were early 20th C, hallmarked and importantly had a makers mark, which I was told raised their value.
The owner had lots of smaller and mainly earlier ones, and was a collector of all silver dolls house items.

Value's dependent on so many different things: age, country of origin, solid silver, sterling silver, or silver plate. Hallmarking, makers marks, hand or machine cut, and scarcity as well as design. They are definitely collected.

Older ones start being made around 1720's in Holland. Silver miniatures of everything were a big thing for rich adult dolls house owners in that era. It was a thing, for wealthier women to go round to see each others dolls houses and compete with each other furnishing them.

The older examples often aren't hallmarked, but if they were made specifically for export to the UK, may have UK silver import marks.
If they were made as exports for UK, then from mid 1800's onward, they have to have a silver import mark, usually an F.
Beginning of 20th C the F got replaced by a dated assay mark and things get confusing. I remember reading somewhere that you can get really early Dutch examples, going for lower than their value at auction, because they're wrongly dated as being mid 20thC British.
Russian ones tend to be thinner copies, without marks.
German ones can often be good quality but often are mass produced with non legal 'hallmarks.' So find someone who knows the differences.
No hallmark doesn't automatically mean lower value, if it's old enough or a smaller scale that didn't really allow for hallmarking without damaging them.

The one on the left is a ladder back chair with a rush seat, (I have a couple of full size wood/rush 18thC ones) and everything I remember suggests it is Dutch. But they were also made in other countries, and modern copies are still made.

The provenance means it's a reasonable guess they're at least 120 years old if not older. The box may be later packaging.
They may have been your mothers, but are equally likely to have been your Grandmothers, but could also predate her. Sorry, not really that helpful but maybe a starting point in knowing what you may have regardless of financial value.

Those are really beautiful.
Take your time and find out what they are.

They are the sort of thing that would be perfect for the Antiques Roadshow!

If you reverse image search it, you get lots of similar things - here is a tiny sample

https://www.betulas.co.uk/coins-and-banknotes/1901-levi-salaman-silver-miniature-chair

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363483895351

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144085030683

https://www.ashcroftandmoore.com/auction-lot/set-12-pewter-miniature-chair-place-card-holders_CAD449496E

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1154575404/miniature-pewter-chair-set-midcentury

Those are enchanting. Have you read The Miniaturist?

Thank you for all your replies, and @Elleherd for so much information and detail. That is interesting that one could be Dutch. Because the box is a silversmith in Wales, I presumed they are from here, but as you say, could be more recent packaging and not original. My Grandma was born in 1915, so if you think they are 120 years old, then they would not have been bought by/given to her.

I'll have a good look tomorrow for any markings, in the daylight and will report back!

Please don't take anything I've said as being more than a poorly educated guess!

I have lots of tiny bits of general oddity knowledge, but they don't add up to much.

I'm just hazarding a guess that beginning of the 20th C (approx 120 yrs ago) sees both a particular surge in that era of imported silver miniatures brought in from Holland, and a lot of copies produced by Birmingham, Sheffield, and London makers.
So if not older this is a quite likely approximate period.

@Elleherd I thought your post was really interesting.

It always fascinates me that no matter how obscure something seems on paper, somewhere in the world there are people who know tons about it.

@BlueMooonn absolutely! I love that on MN there are people who know all sorts of things about things I know nothing about at all.

BlueMooonn & liveforchocolate I love the internet for it's ability to let us share weird and wonderful things, and have benefited a lot from others knowledge on here. I've picked up all sorts of obscure knowledge, but you can write whole encyclopedias on things most people know and take for granted, that I just have no idea about!

Please ignore if not of interest.

More random history info that others might be able to add to:

There are loads of Jewelers and Silversmiths (they're also often watchmakers as well) around Wales in the late 19thC and early 20th C. Those able to continue in the 1st ww are selling lots of scaled down silver regimental 'sweetheart brooches', but would be likely to still have silver miniatures in stock if not being actively made.

Genealogy: I'm aware of a few hundred fleeing Austrian, German, Polish, Russian Jews and Romany silversmiths, and miniaturists settling in Wales between 1845 & 1890's, and making miniature (as well as standard) silverware. Especially 1&1/2 inch high milk jugs, and perfect 1/12 scale silver cutlery, and bouquet holders, for 'Ladies silver tables.' I believe they were a UK sort of equivalent of the function of Dutch ladies dolls houses. (probably closer to the male 'cabinet of curiosities' going on in both countries.)

The Dutch ladies 'dolls houses' are actually cabinets early on, no 'house.'
Many 'fashionable' women married into situations where they couldn't change the decoration/style of an ancestral home, so these became a way of showing off their own taste to each other. Some were given by husbands as wedding gifts, with the right to order miniaturized contents on their husbands accounts.

Back in Wales (and UK) at the outbreak of WW1, many refugee shop owners change their names for survival. (earlier in BlaenauGwent because of local issues) These aren't new retailers, but look as if they are. All named packaging has to change. Old boxes are often painted out or destroyed to appease locals.
Many of them made and sold miniatures of regimental badges as sweetheart brooches, especially tiny ones with double safety catches, as babies ribbon pins.

Lots of silver used to be mined in the Cambrian Mountains, and a royal mint was licensed at Aberystwyth in the 17thC where Welsh silver coins were minted with the Prince of Wales ostrich plume on them. Some Jews and Romanies resettling the UK after 13thC expulsion ended, where involved in their production. (resulting in some very un PC ribaldry regarding the provisioning of Charles army.)

None of this necessarily really connects to liveforchocolates chairs but who knows what connects to what, so I've put it up here.

How absolutely fascinating @Elleherd . Your mention of miniature cutlery brought back a long forgotten memory - I had a set as a child! have no idea where it came from; it may have just been pewter or lead from a jumble sale. But it was a lovely little set, in a little wire basket with compartments, and I played with it a lot. Probably until it fell apart.