Birthday dinner issues.

[KrisTheGardener]

Scenario: My sister has four children, all in their 20s. DC #3 has a birthday next week and has asked for the family to go out to dinner. DC #3 has said she doesn't want to invite DC #1. My sister (the mother) is paying for the dinner. Is it reasonable to exclude one sibling out of four knowing the sibling will be hurt terribly? My sister isn't sure if she should deny the request for a birthday dinner or not just to avoid the situation. It's their birthday but the mother doesn't like being part of the exclusion, which she is if she throws the dinner and has to not invite someone, knowing their older child will probably ask if there is a dinner. It's over a basic philosophical disagreement between them, not something serious that would make it understandable. How would you handle it?

DD1 is a doctor. I don't think it would be the same whatever the degree. DD1 has tried to organise meeting up socially with DD3 over the last few years and DD3 doesn't respond. They used to get on well. To be fair, they both have fairly rigid attitudes to things in general and can both be inflexible.

No, sorry, don't buy it. DC1 may believe she's better and more important because she is, in her eyes, a doctor and therefore more worthwhile. Her parents may believe that too. But they're wrong. DC3 is not less of a person because she is doing an art degree. Does DC1 treat everyone else she considers below her with such contempt? She needs to apologise. Now.

Ask yourself this: if your sister told you every time you met that your career was not as good/important/worthwhile as hers, that her life choices are far superior yours, would you still be meeting with her later?

That's an unfair assumption as my sister has supported the children whatever their interests. If DD1 had wanted to do art then she could have done art too. There's a lot more I could post about these two but it's not my place to share that information.

That's an unfair assumption
Is it though? It's certainly what it looks like to an outsider... Especially as you/your sister seem to very reluctant to suggest DC1 apologise. Why is that not an option?

Your sister shouldn’t lie to DC1 if asked, if asked she should tell her to speak to DC3. She should also tell DC3 to tell DC1 as she can’t lie for her.

DC3 doesn’t have to invite DC1 if she doesn’t want but she can’t expect people to lie for her.

I think I’d sit DC1 down and explain to him what is behind the distance. He needs to speak to DS3 and clear the air. My brothers were similar (although influenced by my parents) and simply valued traditional academic achievement and nothing else. I was certainly looked down on upon and my life choices disrespected

Considering their mother is in the arts, I really don't think she values the arts degree less.

DC1 would have to be aware that this is a problem though, wouldn't she? She's not. My sister hasn't seen it as her place to tell her.

I agree that your sister shouldn't be expected to lie.

DC1 is correct, a degree in fine art isn't especially practical (I speak as someone with a degree in fine art) and I'm sure there was a note of intellectual snobbery in DC1's proclamation of the same. I'd also bet that DC3 sees DC1 as being on their high horse, judging DC3, and the degree comment was likely the straw that broke the camel's back.

But all in all, it's a fallout between adults, so DC3 should act like an adult, and face it, rather than asking their mother to lie.

Yes to the perception of the high horse. However, DC3 has certainly had their own high horses in the past.

So neither dd1 or the dm see it as a problem or issue dd1 speaks down to dd3?

Stop being determined to twist it around. DD1 is not aware of DD3's specific gripe with her. DD1 was set straight by her mother at the time. It's hard to apologise for something you don't even know is a problem for someone. DD1 may have forgotten the passing remark. Sister hasn't seen it as her place to raise it as she doesn't want to betray DD3 by bringing it up. That should be DD3's place. If DD3 wanted my sister to bring it up, I'm sure she would.

I suppose she could ask DD3 if she wants her to bring it up, but if she says no, then DD1 doesn't know there is this issue so can't do anything to fix it.

Ignoring all of the speculation about who's right/wrong/judgy...

No, your sister should not facilitate a family celebration that excludes one person. It's that simple.

There are other ways to celebrate in smaller groupings or individually, which doesn't have the potential to sour the relationship between DD1 and parents/other siblings.

I wouldn’t allow one of my children to be excluded in this way. That’s conspiring with bullying. I would agree to take the birthday child out just me and her (plus dad or friend if that’s what she wants) or the whole family, or give her the money to go out with friends - lots of options that don’t involve deliberate nastiness.

I agree with this.

Also this! The mum can't go along with a family meet up (which she is also paying for) that excludes one of the kids.

I have adult DDs snd there’s no way I would go along with excluding one of them at a family dinner over something so trivial.

How did DD3 end up so sensitive after growing up with three siblings … surely there must have been loads of ribbing and comments. That’s just part of being a large family.

OK, if the eldest has repeatedly contacted Dc3 she is clearly interested in maintaining a sibling relationship.

So your DSis should just say “you can sort this out by simply apologising for saying her degree choice was impractical “.

I am amazed she has let it go so long without saying that, tbh.

She doesn’t have to persuade or beg, just give the simple info, in a non judgemental way, as to a way that the elder sister could regain communication.

ETA: having done a highly ‘impractical’ degree for an even more impractical sector in the arts (and done ok) I would say Dc3 needs to learn to handle a lot more than that if she is going to make a success of herself.

But as PP have said, is there more to it? Is the older Dc Golden Child? Is 3 the family scapegoat? Odd one out?

I think dc3 needs to get a grip. She is excluding her older sibling because she expressed an opinion 2 years ago, but if I understand right dc1 doesn't even know dc3 has a gripe with them? Ridiculous behaviour for someone in their 20s. As their mother I wouldn't be drawn into it, and I would telling dc3 everyone or no one if I'm hosting or paying.

There is no more to it. DD3 is just as capable of expressing opinions DD1 doesn't like.

Has DC1 ever had a birthday meal or get together since then & has DC3 gone?

What’s interesting is that DC3 wants everyone to lie rather than being honest, probably because if DC1 knew, DC3 would then find herself being excluded from DC1’s future events & doesn’t want that.

This is the first time this issue has ever come up. Usually everyone gets invited to everything. I don't think DD1 would exclude DD3 but I know she'd be very hurt to be left out. She is actually very generous and caring. Just a bit of a know it all sometimes. That's a fair description of both, tbh.

So by extension, is DC3 happy to sit out all of DC1’s future get togethers? Does she realise that by excluding DC1, DC1 is then free to do the same to her? Or does she want everyone to lie so she can keep going to DC1 events?

I'm not sure what happens there.

It sounds like their fine arts disgreement was a symptom, not a cause - for DD3 at least. It's been two years, it's not like she's holding out for an apology then everything will be OK again. She's decided that she's not going to have any sort of close adult relationship with her older sister and she's fine with that as the new status quo. It's as simple as realising she just doesn't like her sister or enjoy her company. It happens with siblings quite commonly.

DD1 doesn't seem to have got the message yet (or rather the lack of messages) so she's obviously still under the impression it's a healthier sibling relationship where you can banter with each other and move on quickly.

Agree that their mother doesn't have to pay for any sort of party that would exclude one of the siblings.

There's a few extremely good examples of projection on this thread.