Would someone witnessing a fraudulent document get in trouble?

[Iknowimwrongbutwouldhegetintrouble]

Just that really.

I've forged someone's name on a document (I know I am totally wrong for this but I have my reasons).

There will be no repercussions at all for the person who's name I forged. That person will never know (although they will 100% get me arrested if they ever discovered it out of spite).

I need this document witnessed, would the witness get into trouble for signing if it were ever discovered?

I think they might - they are signing to say that the person signing the document is the same person who is named in the document. If they witness it knowing that you have forged a name they could be in trouble.

This all sounds awful, very dodgy, and a bit desperate. Are you okay? Do you need another sort of advice?

A person signing that they have witnessed someone else signing a document when they have done no such thing could find themselves in difficulties, depending on what the document is.

Well, they would be committing fraud too, either by saying that the signature was genuine or that they had watched the document being signed.

Might depend on the document but (and I'm not a lawyer) yes they would. They are formally witnessing something and signing it, when it's not true. So they are extending / confirming the fraud

What's the document and what's the context? Can you retract / withdraw? This sounds like it could be quite serious if discovered.

So you’ve forged a name and now you want someone to witness the fake signature? That is an entirely unfair situation to put someone in, morally and legally.

Of course it's not right if they say they have seen that person sign it when they haven't.

They could get into trouble for that.

Imagine if it was a will.

Is it a will?!

How will someone witness the signature if it's already signed? You have to sign in front of the witness, that's the point.

If there are really no possible repercussions, no they won't get into trouble, it will only become an issue if your fraud comes to light, but I wouldn't do it for you.

Not sure what document you have forged but - in my professional capacity we had a document that someone had forged the signature of a colleague
The paperwork went to a professional body ( not ours) they rang to check up on the document as they suspected all was not right
The colleague whose signature had been forged was devastated and then furious
The professional body then took a course of action against the forger

You need to sort this mess out before it gets even messier
There is a reason why documents are witnessed

You may as well go the whole hog and forge the witness signature as well.

I'll give details actually because it sounds a lot dodgier than it actually is while I'm trying to be vague.

Long story short, abusive ex, zero to do with my dc for years, doesn't know where we live etc (police, refuges etc) and I've changed my dcs name by deed pole but had to say that ex agreed to this change and name him.

His name isn't on the deed pole, just mine, dcs, and a space for a witness.

I've taken the risk for the wellbeing and mental health of my child, but I don't want to get my friend into trouble by signing to witness it. Friend knows the situation, and is happy enough, but I know if ex ever found out he would go all out to get me into trouble, and I understood that risk, but I don't want to drag anyone else into it if I can help it.

Why not just forge the whole thing. You can do what you want but it would be incredibly unfair of you to ask someone else to get involved.

So is the person witnessing you signing it if the ex isn’t named? That’s fine because they aren’t witnessing that he agreed. If it IS to witness that he agreed, then it’s not on to ask someone.

Yes because they're signing to say they watched the signatories sign the document. If they didn't it's fraud

Yes, I think I'd be inclined to sign the witness part myself rather than involve someone else.

Read section seven - this part in particular:

To change a child’s surname by where the father’s whereabouts is known, we usually need either the father’s consent or a court that gives the mother permission to change her child’s name without the father’s consent. However, if the mother has good reason for not wanting to contact the father for his consent, it may be possible to change her child’s surname without the father’s consent or a court order. Examples of situations where we will accept a Deed Poll application from a mother in such circumstances are:

• The mother has fled the family home to escape violence or abuse from the father and is at risk or fearful of being located.
• The mother is fearful of contacting the father because of past abuse (physical or mental) towards her or her children.
• The father is in prison for a serious offence such as murder, rape or other sexual offence and the mother and children do not wish to be associated by name to the father.
• Where a court has issued a No Contact order or a Non-molestation order.

https://www.deedpoll.org.uk/can-i-change-my-childs-name/#seven

You can do it without his consent, please make this above board from the start. You have options.

Whatever you do make sure you write deed poll on the form not pole. Otherwise it will look dodgy.

You can ask a witness to sign anyway as they won’t be witnesses him signing.

Do you and ex both have parental responsibility?
https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/change-a-childs-name

Friend is signing mine and offered to do dcs too, I didn't ask at all, I'm very caution about putting anyone in the position I've put myself in.

The deed has a space for my signature and a witness so friend would be witnessing my signature.

Separately I had to say that dcs dad agreed to this name change, but that information isn't reflected in the document anywhere.

In these circumstances, just forge the witnesses name too. Probably terrible advice, but you’ll get in trouble if you get found out forging the first name, so might as well take the blame for the second one too, rather than drag an innocent friend in to it.

We do, he hasn't seen dc for years though.

Is there a chance that he will be contacted to check he agreed?

I just had to give his name and say he agreed, I have no idea where he lives so they couldn't contact him really.

I'm 99% certain he will never find out.

So friend won't be witnessing the forged signature at all?

As PP has posted, there is a legal way to do this which means that you aren’t always going to be looking over your shoulder afterwards, so why wouldn’t you do that, rather than give him a stick to beat you with if it comes out?

I'd be scared that many years down the line your ex may discover this and get you into trouble. You don't know how their relationship will be once they're adults and this is potentially something that could be discovered then. As someone posted above, in your circumstances you don't need his permission anyway