Have you experienced more rudeness recently especially when driving?

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

Was debating whether to post this but thought, sod it, why not?

So was driving up my local high street yesterday, it's a one way system up there with 2-3 lanes. I was in the correct lane, and suddenly a huge door of a white van swung open and I just about saw it in time and swerved (safely!) out of the way to avoid hitting it but also to avoid it hitting me, and the passenger in my left hand seat, it was literally centimetres away from me though and the man opening it just didn't see or didn't care that he'd opened it, as I drove off (heavy traffic) I turned and glared at him and mouthed a few words as it was dangerous. Already, even before I'd done this though, he was mouthing angry words back at me, really getting frothed up.

Second time, further on in the day. I'm driving back from somewhere else and there are temporary traffic lights, as I get to them there's a car in front of me at the green light, the driver turns around and does a U turn (in a main road, so illegal) so I have to brake sharply to avoid hitting her (light was green so I was going behind her) but as I braked, I saw her face and it was set again in a nasty scowl/face full of rage as she did her illegal manoeuvre.

This is in SE London but could happen in any city/town/village I suppose. But I've noticed it happening more and more recently and frequently, even when out walking.

There is another element to this, but I'm not posting it here and it's not particularly relevant to this post, though it could be.

Has anyone else noticed rage with drivers increasing recently or indeed with other pedestrians if you're walking along the street? It seems like all the #bekind etc Covid stuff has gone out of the window and manners and generally just not being a dick has gone straight out of the window. Friends and family have noticed the same and have similar stories. I'd love for CHiPS (retro cop show, American) or Paw Patrol to be out on the streets monitoring motorists to be honest!

oh yes totally - used to enjoy driving. There is a such a low tolerance from some drivers when you stick to the speed limit, drivers beeping, gesturing, undertaking, racing, weaving. One bloke got out at lights shouting at me for driving 40 in a 40 zone for example. Drivers routinely driving through red lights.
As you say lots of rage. Definitely worse since Covid. Seems to be an anger in some people.

You’re meant to anticipate people opening doors as you pass and it’s not illegal to u-turn on a main road unless signs say it is.

Bam, there you go, two websites below my first para.

Not just quickly opening the van door wide when you can see in a one way street with lots of traffic driving towards you, the driver is supposed to check no one's actually driving near him.

https://www.thewindscreenco.co.uk/help-advice/car-dooring/#:~:text='No%20person%20shall%20open%2C%20or,'

https://zutobi.com/uk/car/turning

These are the rules for a U-turn, it was not safe for her to do this here and I literally had to brake to a halt, also road was wet from previous hail/rain.

Ah yes, I forgot about that... BMW driver, overtook me on a side road speed limit is about 20mph, he almost smashed into 2 white vans coming the other way on his opp side, that was yesterday afternoon too.

The thing is, years ago, I actually was in an accident years ago, where we were in a Space Cruiser high type vehicle where he was driving at speed towards us on the wrong side of the road with no space for our driver to turn off (taxi) and he crashed into us. The police officer said that if we'd been in a car the same height as his car, there'd have been a fatality and/or one of us would be disabled. As it was I suffered bad whiplash and a knee injury and another injury and had flashbacks for a year or so afterwards as I'd seen the other driver coming towards us at speed on the wrong side of the road.

Speed limits are never “about”.

are you sure you should be on the road?

I live on a fairly busy road in a semi rural area. I never heard a horn beeping until covid. Since then I hear a number of car horns a day. Part of this I think is due to Amazon delivery vans and the like randomly stopping to do their rounds. Another part is the general increase in traffic due to population increase. 100s of extra homes have been added to the village with several hundred more planned. Throw into the mix the constant temporary traffic lights (the roads and pavements round here are an ugly patchwork), plus unnecessary anti-car measures such as pavement widening and you have an environment that makes it very time consuming to get from A to B. I'm not surprised drivers are on edge. I'm not condoning it, just not surprised.

There's a general decline in manners, consideration and respect that's been happening for a few decades, but it used to be rare so people didn't seem to notice as much. Nowadays, it's everywhere, not just on roads, but on pavements/footpaths, shopping centres, attractions/venues, restaurants, etc. More and more people are suffering the selfish/entitled attitudes from others and are starting to think "sod it, if you can't beat em, join em".

I walk 4 times per day along a canal footpath. Every sodding time, there's either some entitled jogger, cyclist, dog walker or groups of walkers (especially rambling groups), who just want to barge past within any consideration, clearly expecting me to jump aside as they're more important than me and expect me to jump into the bushes so as not to inconvenience them. Well, I used to be a pushover and stand aside, but now it happens so often, I think sod it, and just carry on. Let them organise themselves to slow down/thin out and pass me themselves. I just carry on walking, continuing to one side of the footpath with plenty of room for them to pass. The sheer number of them who are abusive or make a big thing of having to go into single file themselves, or slow down if they're on a bike, or reign in their uncontrolled dog, etc!

I think a lot of it is that mobile phones have made people insular and unaware of their surroundings, either because they're listening to music or podcasts, or looking at texts or websites, etc. When they realise they're in the wrong, instead of accepting they're at fault, they default to a position of abusing the innocent!

It's got really bad in London over the last couple of years I agree. So much aggression, so many knobs in powerful cars.

Yes, it's terrible where I am on the outskirts of London. A friend visits family in a Lancashire village though and said its much better there, so probably area dependent.

I think drivers are getting worse. More impatient to get somewhere maybe?

There's a mini roundabout by me that essentially replaces a crossroads. If you are approaching from one road, it is very hard to see what is coming from the right hand turn due to a large wall and road angle obscuring the view. So you have to inch out slowly. So many people coming from the right turn fail to slow down on approach to the roundabout because they assume that as nothing is coming from their right (ie your straight on or left) they can just breeze over without a care. You should always slow down for a junction / mini roundabout even if you do have right of way. And don't get me started on the ones who get irate when you pull out and they suddenly appear because they've been speeding. Yes they might have right of way, but not if I've already committed!

London is bad as is Birmingham. Manchester seems more tolerant and out of city driving is much calmer. Cities with more foreign drivers seem to be worse as cultural differences in driving are more apparent.

You know what I mean. The speed limit is either 20mph etc. Don't try to antagonise me as I'm not in the mood.

I wasn't going to say, as I don't think it's relevant, but the first driver (white van) was black (light skinned) and the second woman (traffic lights) was Indian looking in a white 4x4 Audi. I have no idea how relevant that is, whether they saw me in a newish silver Audi 4x4 (electric) as a white woman and there was a racial element to it, or not.

But then I had 2 white men in a white van scream at me the other week as I hadn't said thank you to them when crossing a zebra crossing (you're not obliged to do so and I wasn't thinking!). I just ignored them.

Then last week, my best friend (who's black), said she crossed a zebra crossing, didn't say thank you, just didn't think of it. A white van let her go with a couple (man and woman, both white) and they started screaming abuse at her for not saying thank you. After 30 seconds of this with no response they then started with the racist abuse at her, but she didn't rise to this, just kept on walking (on her way to the station).

It just seems to me that there's a huge amount of anger about in general out there at the moment. Quite worrying really.

London is appalling. Really bad.

I found driving more aggressive after Covid but actually more recently it seems everyone has chilled out a bit near me.

Lack of indicators at roundabouts continues to be an issue however 😬

The endless potholes, roadworks (without any actual workers on) and the sheer volume of road users just puts people on edge. It makes people angry and/or anxious.

Allow me to quote from the web page you have linked to (which isn't authoritative at all, but whatever):

"You can do a U-turn anywhere, if it’s safe and not prohibited."

The U-turn wasn't illegal, and the fact that you "literally had to brake" definitely doesn't make it illegal. You have no right to drive along a road without ever having to slow down.

Both cases are similar. You're driving through a busy urban area, and then acting surprised and aggressive when complications occur. You are expecting to drive down a busy street without having to pause for anyone else.

I'm not saying the idiots are your fault, but that obstructions to your forward progress will happen. Have you seen the ogmios school of zen motoring?

I live in a fairly quiet area and things are okay on the roads apart from workmen in vans (always rushing, always rude) and the BMW/Audi/Mercedes drivers who are invariably sociopaths.

People around here have zero idea what the speed limit is so invariably sit there at 10 miles under, or just do 40 everywhere regardless of the actual speed limit. Really frustrating on 60mph roads.

I drive something fast enough to get the hell away from them at the first opportunity.

A large part of the increases in car insurance prices are because drivers now are generally crap after 2 years of lockdowns. (I did over 40k miles in 2020 and 2021 as a key worker. The roads were bliss.)

It was not safe for the driver to do the U turn there, she’d simply decided she’d gone the wrong way and the temporary traffic lights might’ve irritated her.

I was driving at the normal speed limit giving space between vehicles and the lights were on green. Note she didn’t signal at all that she was going to turn around.

The other example was dangerous and I was aware of other drivers but he opened his door wide and quickly when he could see I was passing (again legal distances).

I used to work for a lawyer specialising in driving cases and I’m sure if I spoke to him not that I would he’d agree I was in the right.

Next you’ll say it was fine for the driver to overtake me on the road will you?!

I’m a recent Audi driver myself (had a Yaris for years) hope I behave myself!

Doesn’t help when you don’t know the speed limit and it changes from 20 to 30mph on some roads.

Yes, I have. And the reason is simple - too many people jammed into too small an area. The population of my home town has nearly doubled in the last 20 years. It’s basically a small market town with the population of a small city. Most people live squashed onto disgusting new estates, and the traffic is so bad I avoid going out. I have given up yoga, for example, because I can’t face the queues after work. And don’t get me started on those little idiots who modify their exhausts so they loudly backfire.

Any zookeeper will tell you that when you jam too many animals together in a cage they start attacking one other. I remember visiting the west coast of Ireland in the 1990s and being amazed by how calm and pleasant the people were. When you have space, and life moves at a calmer (and quieter) pace, your nerves aren’t constantly shredded. I had to drive from Essex to Stevenage recently. By the time I got there I was in such a foul mood I could have murdered someone.

NSL is never 40mph for cars though.

And where did I say it was 40mph for cars?!