Working with (undiagnosed) neurodiverse colleagues?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I've just been on a work trip with a colleague for the first time. We've never really got to know each other very well, despite working in a small-ish organisation. She has a reputation for being unreliable and very disorganised. She's always the last to sign things and has to be reminded several times. When she eventually replies to emails, it's in a rush of unpunctuated text that often doesn't make sense. She ignores / doesn't stick to rules regarding things like booking devices / rooms / other resources - she'll just e.g. take extra supplies without checking who needs them, leaving others short. She'll often take up a 'cause' - usually something social justice-y that she feels strongly about - tackle it in a cack-handed manner, and then not seem to understand why others don't fall in behind her. She has aspirations to a leadership role, but there is no way on earth people would choose to follow her as she is so disorganised, her behaviour often comes across as selfish, ignorant, inconsiderate of others needs.

While we were away she told me that her son (16) is being tested for ADHD, and that having listened to / read some of his reports, she's fairly sure that she too has ADHD. But she's not interested in getting assessed herself. TBF she is in her late 50s, so not all that far off retirement.

So I'm wondering if I should start cutting her more slack at work or even standing up for her when people complain? My understanding is that if she does have ADHD then some of these things she won't necessarily be able to help doing. We don't work directly together, but people who do are very down on her as she causes them so much extra work by being disorganised and unreliable. But if she doesn't have a diagnosis, why should they take my concerns seriously?

As far as I'm concerned if someone has no interest in helping themselves, don't waste your time and energy helping them either.

I agree with @Alwaysalwayscold.

As far as I'm concerned if someone has no interest in helping themselves, don't waste your time and energy helping them either
I agree with this.

As a manager I've generally been happy to make reasonable adjustments to help people, whether they have a diagnosis or not, because we all have different work patterns and preferences and it's in the interests of the team for everyone to be successful. I'm less happy to be an enabler for disorganised and ineffective colleagues who choose to prioritise non-essential pet projects over doing a decent job.

If she wants to move into leadership she needs to have the skills and work habits that allow her to be a good leader. There are lots of excellent neurodiverse leaders and aspiring leaders. She doesn't sound like she's one of them.

This is interesting to me as I'm probably similar to your colleague (right down to having a child going through the diagnosis process and very aware I have ADHD but not wanting a diagnosis myself) and although I'd like to think I don't cause as much inconvenience and mayhem, who knows?!?
Yes cut her some slack, even if only on the basis that it's the kind considerate and empathetic thing to do to your fellow person? I mean, why would you be anything but in any case if you think about it? We've all got our faults and unless you honestly think she's being the way she is too be malicious or spiteful... 🤷🏼‍♀️ We should all support each other IMO.

Fwiw I have put off pursuing a diagnosis for myself as I hate labels, am wary of medication (so what's the point in diagnosis) & don't think I'm too horrendous to be around am also paranoid all my insurance premiums will double maybe she feels the same?!

This type of mindset is exactly what's wrong with the world and it's views of neuro diversity - do you honestly think people who are wired differently "choose" to be the way they are??? I see/hear it all the time, "my friend/colleague keeps me waiting/is always late/borrows my stuff or equipment and doesn't give it back/never replies to messages or emails/can't parent her children etc etc" and do many people jumping in with "god yes self absorbed bitch clearly thinks she's more important than you, ditch/report!" Because if you're NT of course it's easy to change your ways isn't it?!

So narrow minded 🙄

I'm in a similar position to your colleague, realising that my problems/failings are possibly due to undiagnosed adhd after having to research and support my son during his own diagnosis. I don't feel that I will follow up for a diagnosis for myself as I feel that I have managed for 40+ years. However, having an understanding of why I do things has helped me put in place strategies to circumvent my shortcomings. I feel that this alone is making a big difference to my performance. Maybe your colleague is taking this approach?

“ no interest in helping themselves “

I'm sorry. What would this actually look like? Have you any idea how long waits are for children seeking diagnosis? Are you suggesting this person and more like her throw themselves into the mix clogging up the system even more??

Diagnosis is only helpful if it then means the person gets meaningful support. This is likely in school and other education providers, possibly after exhausting fights for such. Less likely in ‘real life’. It shouldn’t be. But it is.

As this woman has had experience of this with her child, she is likely to be fully aware of this.

I am. I could be her.

So great. Not only are undiagnosed ND people judged by others who have no idea how hard it is for them, they’re now judged for not seeking a probably useless slapped on label too.

To start with when is '50 not far off retirement' ? If in UK she has another 17 years to go !

I was lucky enough to be listened to and referred by my GP back in 2006. When I was mid 40s . So waiting list not bad. I too recognised it in myself when going through my sons diagnostic process and was referred to The Maudsley in London as it was one of the few places at that time accepting adults.

My diagnosis has made a huge amount of difference to me. It explains why I lose things constantly, variously cannot complete tasks or become hyper absorbed in them depending upon the situation. For my employer who I have been with for 30 years - it has enabled them to 'get the best from me' .. (don't assign me a task like setting up a conference that requires multiple strands of organisation and invitations because you will end up with no guests and no food - but if you want an issue investigated, then I'm your woman ) .

I also have medication which I no longer use all the time . Only when I really need to be focused (work in investigations so stuff like court) ..

BUT having a diagnosis is not a get out of jail free card .. I have ADHD and awful time management goes with territory. I ALWAYS think I have more time to do things than I do and would end up rushing, stressed and inevitably late. Now I have to put strategies in place to guard against my own instincts. ie . I have Alexa shout at me and tell me it's time to leave NOW on a preset timer. I have my dates and appointments on my phone with reminders , (irs not foolproof as it still means I have to remember to do it.. but now with a diagnosis family are much more understanding and will all help me..

However, having an understanding of why I do things has helped me put in place strategies to circumvent my shortcomings. I feel that this alone is making a big difference to my performance.

ATM her hyper-focus is on the things that she deems worthwhile, and this means that everything else gets put to the side or treated in a slap-dash manner, and she doesn't seem to see putting her colleagues out or causing them extra work as a problem. Performance management is a bit haphazard at our workplace. Our previous manager, who retired last year, basically didn't do any. Our new manager is inexperienced, and not quite up to criticising / suggesting different ways of working to anyone yet. She performs well for our clients (this is what she hyper-focuses on), it's her relationships with and the way she treats / works with her colleagues that is the issue.

She herself is a very non-judgemental person, so I don't think she expects to be judged by her colleagues. But she is - and harshly.

A diagnosis will not cure neurodivergence. In reality it may lead to appropriate meds but that is all it would do. Your colleague is not exhibiting neurodivergence traits deliberately.

To start with when is '50 not far off retirement' ? If in UK she has another 17 years to go !

I did say 'late-50s', and we aren't in the UK. Plus her husband is a very high earner who will retire in a few year,s so she's not planning to be working on into her mid/late 60s.

Incidentally, she could proceed with a diagnosis at any time where we are. It would cost around €600 in all, with a private neuropsychologist. No waiting lists this way.

You described her to a tee! She cannot handle projects with multiple strands - booking rooms, finding speakers, issuing schedules, organising timelines, doing paperwork / admin etc - it totally stresses her out.

Our work trip was exhausting for me: she was meant to be in charge of the schedules but we were constantly running late. She'd set the schedule for the day, including fixed appointments that we had to make - then she'd randomly add extra activities, as if they wouldn't have an impact on our timeline! And then she'd be all confused when we had to cut various activities short or we ended up running to the next appointment. I was there to support her, but ended up doing all the directions, route planning, timings and scheduling

It was actually her response that made me feel more sympathetic to her rather than just bloody annoyed!

She clearly wasn't doing any of this on purpose as far as I could tell. She genuinely couldn't understand why time had not somehow expanded to fit the extra activities in. And the stress of trying to do all these things at once on this trip clearly stressed her a lot - she was tired and quite clingy to me, which was a bit odd from an adult woman.

I’m like this person to an extent. It feels crap to always feel like you’ve been naughty as an adult! Really shameful. Having someone in my corner who just got it and gave me an understanding look would be really helpful in a work environment like that.

People vary though. You can have selfishness and other less desirable traits along with the neurodivergence. You have to look carefully to see the intent behind actions.

As far as I'm concerned if someone has no interest in helping themselves, don't waste your time and energy helping them either

It's pretty hard to go through your whole life not realising your behaviour is linked to a condition and thinking its just the way you are. She may even think she is coping OK, since she has clearly been muddling along for many years and is still employed.

I have one staff member (A) with diagnosed ND and one (B) who I suspect is ND but undiagnosed or at least undisclosed and performs extremely poorly in ways similar to what you describe. The diagnosis in the case of A makes it easier and less frustrating, but only to a point - ultimately if they can’t do a particular type of task, as a poster upthread describes, and that task is part of their job, I have to find someone else to do it or do it myself, which takes precious resource away from elsewhere. I don’t think standing up for someone performing poorly in a way that impacts on others - not responding to things, taking things she hasn’t booked etc - is going to do you personally any favours. Also, if you’re not her manager, you probably don’t know the full picture - I spend a huge amount of my time dealing with the issues relating to my staff members, but my wider team don’t know that and it could probably look from the outside like I’m not doing anything and am happy for them to continue to underperform; that’s absolutely not the case, at all, but dealing with those types of issues in a genuinely supportive, inclusive and policy-compliant way takes an extremely long time. Neither I, nor the staff themselves, would appreciate a third party not in our management chain getting involved.

OP, you sound like a lovely, caring and compassionate colleague.

There are many people in work, who if they were young in today's world, probably would have been diagnosed with something. The attitude is very much, it's late in the day for a diagnosis and I've lived most of my life like it so what's the point. Sadly they grew up in a time where it was ignored and there was little to no help.

This type of mindset is exactly what's wrong with the world and it's views of neuro diversity - do you honestly think people who are wired differently "choose" to be the way they are??? I see/hear it all the time, "my friend/colleague keeps me waiting/is always late/borrows my stuff or equipment and doesn't give it back/never replies to messages or emails/can't parent her children etc etc" and do many people jumping in with "god yes self absorbed bitch clearly thinks she's more important than you, ditch/report!" Because if you're NT of course it's easy to change your ways isn't it?!

So narrow minded 🙄

You seem to have totally missed the point where I said:
As a manager I've generally been happy to make reasonable adjustments to help people, whether they have a diagnosis or not, because we all have different work patterns and preferences and it's in the interests of the team for everyone to be successful.

I'm less happy to be an enabler for disorganised and ineffective colleagues who choose to prioritise non-essential pet projects over doing a decent job.

But that's fine, if you think that making adjustments even when people don't have a diagnosis because you want the team to succeed is narrow minded, that's fine.

You're also overlooking that I said:
There are lots of excellent neurodiverse leaders and aspiring leaders. She doesn't sound like she's one of them.

Supporting people to succeed, regardless of a diagnosis or not, is not the same as enabling pet projects and putting people into leadership who are disorganised and unable to lead effectively.

Neurodiverse or otherwise, not everyone has leadership qualities and skills and that's ok. Not everyone will make a good manager. Poor quality leadership can have a detrimental effect on teams (especially for a lot of neurodiverse members of teams, like myself, who may find chaotic and disorganised leadership causes them undue levels of stress because it makes managing our own workflow more difficult).

I have adhd. I have my strengths but I can also be quite chaotic. I mask as well as I can in work, but I'm sure that my last minute approach probably stresses people out sometimes. I am definitely not selfish and try really hard not to put others out...often to my own detriment.

I don't see what's wrong with what @LolaSmiles said at all. She's happy to make reasonable adjustments and recognises that some people with adhd can make great leaders, but she expects them to have effective coping strategies and to do the jobs that they're paid to do.

Adhd makes life way harder in many ways, and it's helpful when others can cut you don't slack or simply understand the fact that some things that are easy for others might be incredibly difficult for you. However, isn't a get out of jail free card for being selfish or letting others down.

TBF it sounds like If this lady does think she "might have" ADHD she is at the very start of her journey and will not necessarily realise a lot of the negative impact of her actions on her colleagues so how can she help herself if she's unaware of her failings? It is almost guaranteed she's not consciously aware of her failings and even if she does have peripheral awareness, most people with ADHD have heightened feelings of inadequacy or RSD so she will probably be trying to convince herself she's not that bad to prevent spiraling - potentially projecting here but hey ho 😂 - also sounds like if all this is ongoing in her work environment she is being badly managed anyway?! How has nobody said anything in a kind or constructive manner, if she is so badly impacting her team?! Tbh it jst sounds like everyone is bitching behind her back and she may not even be aware of any of it so how has she any idea that she even needs to "help herself" or "develop her own coping strategies"?

If she had a decent, empathetic and ND aware manager who genuinely was invested in helping everyone in the team be their best self for the good of the company she would have not been allowed to continue in this way I guarantee.

Op please support this woman if you can without it being too the detriment of your own work and maybe even suggest to management that they nudge her into pursuing a diagnosis, especially if she wants to progress, as like I said if she's just starting her journey of discovery she will need support all the way. It's hard going, accepting you have "faulty wiring" and that it's not your fault, and that you can make positive changes! Don't just dismiss her 🙏

You sound absolutely lovely, by the way 💐