Please advise about my DS8 with poor manners

[SashTea]

It's really starting to get to me and I'm probably not dealing with it correctly. The other 2 (teen and 10) are super polite - please and thank you and just generally appreciate things.

DS8 has, from a young age, not really picked up the please and thank you without a prompt. He's definitely got better in the last year but still needs reminding probably half the time. It could be because he was 4 when I separated and his dad is rude/ungrateful often and he spends time with him without me now (he's a good dad though, but bloody entitled).

It extends though to expectation, he seems to 'want' this 'can I have that' - the others never really did this. And when we're having a drink/snack on the sofa he'll just try and hand me his cup when he's done instead of putting it on the table?! I keep reminding/prompting but then sometimes get pissed off and tell him off about lack of manners, I'm at a loss though. And I worry he comes across as really rude to others. Otherwise, he's a lovely, friendly, fun and kind boy - it's commented on by teachers etc.

I may be over reacting but it jars with me and I always notice when adults aren't polite and it bothers me. I'm sure it must be the same for many others and feel a responsibility to try and change this before it's too late.

I think he’s old enough to have it explained that others will find him rude so her realises.

keep consistently reminding him and if you are wanting to have a firmer stance, give him advanced notice you will be strict on it, and then dont give him what he demands

”who would like an ice cream?”

me please say the older two. Yes me, says the youngest. Give the older two ice cream. Youngest goes without. Once or twice of following through and I bet he remembers!

Don't want to teach you to suck eggs. Have you explained why it's good for his own personal interests to do this? I explained to my son that people usually want to do more and give you more when you are polite. I get my son to test it out on his nan. It works, then he gets more - praise, treats etc. I know it's basic but if he sees the immediate reward it might make it easier. My son didn't get it and thought it was all a bit fake, which it is a little I guess ( he's autistic). When I explained it just makes people feel good, you get things, and other parents like you being around their kids more, he was pretty sold then.

I wouldn't worry too much at this age. It's usually because we worry what others think of us. I know I felt that way. You feel the judgment of all the other parents and strangers who tend to love the polite kids.

Try and detach emotion from it. You may be super sensitive because of his dad.

Just model politeness constantly. Thank him and other people for politeness. Comment on other people’s courtesy- wasn’t she kind to hold the door open so we could manage?

When he asks for something politely, respond quickly and warmly. When he forgets, be a bit distracted ‘Hmm? Pardon? Oh, did you say something?’.
And when he passes you his empty cup or rubbish, tell him what to do with them. Well done, pop it In the dishwasher please. In the bin, good lad!

I want doesn't get.

Only politeness brings the reward. Unless he asks nicely, then he goes without.

Thank you all!

Yes, think I am over sensitive about his dad. Really don't want him to end up like him!

And yes, very true - I do worry about what other people think of him (and me!).

But I also don't want to ruin my relationship with him, sometimes I feel like I'm really on at him and he's just going to tune me out.

I have talked to him a little about it separately but actually, it's usually in the moment or when reacting to lack of manners so that's a very good idea @Pantaloons99 - thank you.

And yes - thank you, I will make extra effort to model politeness. I do try to make a fuss in a 'that was so lovely and polite' when he is, but I should do it for the others as he'd probably notice that more.

And it would probably be better to refuse to give him something if he's not polite, than to end up slightly losing my shit as I did last week in the car about it. They all seemed to find it funny but it wasn't and I felt awful after it.

If you don’t want to risk the relationship- and you are right, it is important- don’t challenge directly.

He’ll learn really quickly if manners get a quicker response than ignorance! Just fail to hear him an awful lot.

Thanks @pickledandpuzzled this is a good idea, I'll mega praise politeness from him and the others, then try just not acting on requests when he isn't polite. I might take things away too! Not in a forever way, but if he doesn't say thank you I'll remove it until he does. I just want something that will help it click so he'll remember!

I have one who resisted every attempt at teaching manners. I could squeeze a reluctant please out of him but never a thank you because he couldn’t see the point.

I nearly fell off my chair when the pre school teacher praised his beautiful manners.

I backed off a bit after that because obviously the lesson was being received. I model good manners, but I’m not going to waste energy on a battle of wills. He’s a street angel. And that stubborn streak is a positive in many ways.

I really wouldn’t. That’s really punitive. A forced thank you, sorry, please is of no value.

I’m sure you’ve heard people bellow ‘SIT DOWN PLEASE’ in a way that demonstrates nothing of courtesy.

You are aiming for a child that notices other people, is aware of and appreciative of what they share. That’s better than a robotic token suffix, surely?

@pickledandpuzzled thanks. This is where I get so lost. Ignoring/not hearing on purpose is fine but taking away a treat until he remembers to say thank you isn't. I feel ill equipped to handle this properly!

I guess it’s a bit random sounding.

Taking something away as a punishment is different to being much more responsive when he’s courteous.

I think it may be to do with natural consequences. Ideally they learn best when they get negative consequences from negative behaviour, and positive consequences from positive behaviour.

If they fail to put their Xbox controller away and the dog chews it- that’s a natural consequence. They are unlikely to make the mistake twice. If they don’t put it away and you come along, put it away for them and stop them using it for a few days- that’s also a natural consequence, especially if you put it in the wrong place and they can’t find it. Putting it away and having a random punishment like losing some pocket money is less effective.

Does that make sense? I had super sensitive children who couldn’t cope with rejection, punishment, shame (foster carer and also DC with ASD). They just cope so much better when they see consequences rather than punishment.

Sorry if I sounded snippy before, I didn’t intend to. Just going too fast!

@pickledandpuzzled so sorry - I missed your reply. How rude/impolite of me! Thank you, that all makes sense and you didn't 'sound snippy at all, I really appreciate the time taken. I've really started praising the good manners, with him and the other two and things seem to have massively improved already. So will keep trucking on with it.

I’m glad things are getting better, @SashTea! life with kids can be very hard 🤣