How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

I think being unpopular is quite common when you buy a house where a popular older person lived for a really long time.

We bought our house over a year ago from an old boy who’d lived here for over 40 years. Most of our neighbours have been lovely but the one we adjoin hates us. She says it was a “nice” neighbourhood before we moved in, someone got stabbed across the road a few years back but we’re worse!

When she was angry about us doing building work (to make the house structurally stable and habitable), we thought it was understandable but our misdemeanours are much wider reaching - basically anything that constitutes change or living in our house. Our latest crimes are getting a rescue cat and employing a man to remove two shrubs in our garden 🤣 She says to us quite often “old man you bought off would never have done X” and X is normally something innocuous like wanting to fix our fence, hoovering on a Sunday afternoon or chatting in the garden with an ice lolly on a sunny day.

I used to take it really personally but I’ve come to realise she’ll never be happy so there’s no point fretting. We own our house and garden, just like you also own your garage and allotment, and it’s ours to do with as we please as long as we’re not being anti-social! Pay them no notice even if they hate you, it’s their problem not yours.

You’re surprised you can own a piece of land not attached to your house? Really? What’s surprising about that? You can own your house, you can own your garden but you’re surprised that a piece of land can be owned as part of a property?

I literally wouldn't give this boot so much as a blade of grass thanks to her outrageous attitude. She can gather up all her shit and piss off. Honest to God, the audacity!

It’s a piece of land sold with a house. Are people really this confused due to the use of the word allotment? Jesus. It’s a piece of land with the house. OP says lots of these houses have a piece of land in the same area and they’ve all just used them as allotments. So the pattern has continued when new people have moved in.

It’s just a bit of land with your house, like you’re garden. It can be used as anything you want; growing a beautiful flower garden, or for growing food, or just somewhere to sit and do yoga on some grass. Whatever. It’s a hit of land that forms part of the estate with the house.

Allotments Act may apply https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/14/31

All those saying Barbara has no rights may be wrong.

It’s not legally called an allotment on the ops deeds and there is no tenancy agreement calling it an allotment.

I think less accurate than that in fact, however if you stay in the same place for a while, then the app will also triangulate between aerials which increases accuracy to about 10cm. That should be sufficient.

If the situation gets litigious, then a proper survey would be required anyway.

Your solicitor should have checked the title deeds and will be able to clarify this for you.

You don't have to sue anyone. This is for your solicitor to sort out.

This is good advice. Sounds like previous owner wasn't honest with anyone.

It’s not an allotment. It’s a bit of land with the house and can be used however they like. It’s just turned out that everyone uses theirs for growing crops:

It sounds like the neighbours took the piss out of Barbara, and to be fair, if she wasn’t using the garage or allotment, fair enough.

The error here is that Barbara didn’t notify garage man or allotment woman that she’s selling and therefore the CFery was coming to an end. TBH they should have realised that themselves.

Are the garage and allotment listed as part of the sale? It is clearly included? If so, you need to give allotment woman fair notice, but to be honest, if she knew the woman was moving, she should have backed out before. You could, as others have said, let her have her harvest.

Is this one of those cases where she’s been tending it for years and if push came to shove, she’s got a legal claim on it? Allotment gate?

What a situations! I would go with option 1 - you need clear cut boundaries. Just firmly but fairly state the law and give her reasonable time to vacate. Otherwise you could be stuck with her forever and the longer she uses it the cloudier the issue may become.

Glad you got the legal advice, OP, and I take the point about removing Barbara's stuff yourself - though at this time of year I wouldn't have thought she'll have planted much?

On your three options I see little sense in charging her rent, partly as it would wind her up even more but mainly because you'd probably never get it.
The "shared space" has potential unpleasantness written all over it, so personally I'd get the solicitor's letter and at least know you've acted properly

And yes it's a shame for Barbara, but if she's spent time and cash on something that was never hers that's the risk she took. Besides which where's the appreciation for all the years she's had free enjoyment of it?

Oh, this is a hoot. Your husband suggestion of taking up naked gardening is hilarious, OP.

Unless Babs was horridly sweary and rude with you, I think I’d be inclined to drop a nice note round (with your ownership of the plot marked on the back) acknowledging how surprised you both were the other day and suggesting a neighbourly chat about the situation.

Giving her until the end of growing season would be generous but if she doesn’t politely agree sharpish, then time for a solicitors letter and maybe some fencing.

Babs and her “dear friend” the previous owner should’ve had a conversation about her buying the plot separately to the house. Your seller has left you in a rubbish position with the new neighbours for not getting this all sorted as they should’ve done!

This lady was clearly shocked. Probably even more so than OP and her DH when they turned up. And she'll have an emotional investment in the land, so it's not surprising that she reacted emotionally.

Again, the REAL villain in this is the vendor, and hardly anyone on this thread is getting angry with her. She's the one who didn't have the guts to tell Barbara that the allotment was being sold along with the house, or to tell the neighbour that he'd have to empty the garage.

I still think Barbara was oblivious to the allotment being part of the sale. She wouldn't have been so shocked when OP turned up had she had an inkling.

"which increases accuracy to about 10cm. That should be sufficient."

That's really great to know, thanks for that. This isn't a boundary issue in my case, we just need to locate accurately some features on a field we own.

Following for update!

Oh, I did mean to add in a bit about the vendor, they're a real piece of work too!

I still don't think Barbara is 100% squeaky clean in this, same as the cheeky fucker using the garage.

How could Barbara be "shocked" when her "very dear friend" sold the property likely six months ago. And she knows perfectly well she was merely borrowing the property.

Does anyone find it credible that a sentient 60-year-old woman thinks she was handed a valuable piece of property permanently, despite it now legally belonging to a stranger??

This has to be handled through your solicitor. I feel sorry for you as it immediately gets you off on the wrong foot in the village and that won’t make living there easy at all. I have ‘small village’ experience!

Might be worth taking a big dog with you next time you go!

They have checked the seller questionnaire and the previous owner did not declare that other people used the garage and allotment. They have alerted her solicitors to this

You could ring the seller back and tell her to ring her friend and make it clear if she doesn't remove the shed pronto, you're going to sue the seller.
If they are such good friends that might concentrate the mind a bit.

If the seller protests with the flannel she did last time, you tell her you will be seeking the cost of your solicitors' letters from her. Give her and the neighbour until the end of April.

There are lots of Without Prejudice letter templates you can use initially before you instruct the solicitor.

Option 2 and 3 are not in your best interests (unless this isn't your forever home/you hope to do extensions etc). You aren't going to be popular but given that ship has already sailed, you win nothing by being a mug.

If it's a large plot of land, would it be possible to divide it in half and let her rent half of it from you? I had an allotment and it's a lot of work to upkeep if juggling jobs/kids etc so might be good to have a smaller plot of land to work if it fits your needs. Also, would be a kind of compromise if you don't want to alienate all your new neighbours! Not that you've done anything wrong but people who've lived in a street can be cliquey if they see the newcomers as troublemakers 😳

I've said this over and over again. I suspect that Barbara thought it was a normal rented allotment and had no idea that it was part of the house sale. Again, it's unusual that an allotment forms part of anyone's title deeds. It's far more usual for them to be rented from the council.

Please reads the thread or, at least, the OP's posts. It is NOT an allotment, it is a piece of land not attached to the house, which can be cultivated or not according to the owners wishes.