How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

I knew it! Gorgeous part of the world and appreciate a good allotment or market garden as I’ve heard it called.

@YaMuvva

I'm coming at this from a US-centric POV (allotments aren't really a 'thing' here per se, but 'community gardens' are becoming a thing) and our laws may be different here. Here, she could be done for trespass which is a criminal, not civil, matter. Regardless what the previous owner did or did not disclose, she's trespassing. No different than those people who think they can continue to park on your drive because the previous owner let them. The only difference is that from what you say, the plantings would be considered her 'property' and you can't get those towed away like you can a car.

If you're wanting to try to avoid hard feelings, I'd offer Barbara a short term rental contract at a peppercorn rent that would run until approximately 'harvest time' based on what she's planted, but no later than <insert date>, probably to coincide with the next planting season. It would stipulate no new plantings could be added as of the date of the contract (ie no extending the life of the contract by new plantings) and no new 'structures' of any kind could be added. And that by the specified date she must have cleared the plot (no leaving dead plants in situ) and removed the shed.

If she refuses to sign, then I'd institute legal proceedings to have her 'evicted'.

OP, you can get a sort of satellite stick which will beam up and get a GPS(?) reading of the coordinates of your plot. DH did it when we bought our house as the plot boundaries were slightly ambigous and he didn't trust the Delboyish seller he wanted everything to be clear. Good job because a few years on the seller tried to resell a bit of our garden .

It does sound when I spoke to her like she assumed Barbara owned it in all but name

Grab a soil test from b and q.
You'll look very professional and show her you are really into your veggie growing.
Dont let her think you haven’t taken the added bonus of an allotment lightly and make sure she knows it was key to your purchase decision. Then she’ll know you are not going to give up easily.

If she’s there you could ask her if she’s taking or leaving the shed.

What a nightmare! Hopefully you can get it all amicably resolved.

This though should be a little bit of a lesson OP to actually due your own due diligence when buying a property. I know it’s been said but if I found out half way through the conveyancing process that we were buying additional land, I’d be straight over to see what condition it was in.

Phones do this these days.

@YaMuvva

I think the neighbour/garage thing was so bad. Only to be followed by this, which - yes, I’d need a bit of time to come down after hitting the roof.

I moved into a street where it’s clearly long term residents v’s the newcomers. It worried me at first - ‘how I’d be perceived’ - it doesn’t now. We had some renovations done, and many, many things happened that were clearly unreasonable. It’s faded into the mists of time now.

The allotment. Could you - of course - reclaim back, but could she be useful?? Could you ‘take over’ but still allow her to tend and share the produce with her? It depends what she is like. She might have a lot of skills and knowledge, help with watering etc.

Even our council tenancies don’t give 12 months notice for termination of contract. We give 2 weeks.

P.s. do you have legal cover on your house insurance?

I don’t think you should offer to share it with her or let her rent part of it from you. You are just putting a plaster on the actual issue here. She either needs to vacate it completely or you need to try to see if you can get damages from the previous owner because the allotment wasn’t vacant and is being claimed by a neighbour. When the woman dies will you then be sharing it with her children or grandchildren who feel that they also have a right to it? What about her dear friend Betty who might also want to plant some carrots? I would want the situation completely resolved, and quickly. To be honest there are no winners here. Even if she vacates it she (or someone else) might do something to the plot or to any vegetables that you plant. It’s a toxic situation and the previous owner should have dealt with it.

Exactly! If she’d knocked on the door and explained the situation we’d have still wanted to allotment but would have at least had an opportunity to have a grown up conversation about it. It was the fact she was sitting soaking up the sun, feet up with her wanker cup, sorry Stanley cup, sunnies on and throwing back her tea and loving life on our allotment as we walked up to her like a couple of confused beggars. That’s what threw me a little

A friend of mine did move into a flat under bad terms with the previous owner and the PO left a fish under the floorboards.

Stank for weeks before they worked out what it was.

Phones do this these days.

Wow, do they @HappiestSleeping ? Yes this was over 10 years ago.

it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’

Fucking hell, she's got a bloody nerve.

I appreciate she's been using it for years but surely she knows that she doesn't have a leg to stand on? I sympathise with her because she obviously loves the space. But I can't believe it didn't occur to her that she wouldn't be allowed to keep it when the house was sold. If it was the back garden, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't expect to keep it - this is no different! Just because it's not physically attached to the property, that doesn't mean she can just keep it because IT DOESN'T BELONG TO HER. You bought it and paid for it!

It's like you've bought a house from someone and then moved in to discover someone's living in the master bedroom because the previous owner said they didn't mind, and then saying 'Well, I'm not moving, this is my sanctuary and I bought this bed, you'll have to fight me for this room.'

Yeah I think she thought “they obviously don’t know or care”

DH has said if we decide option 1 and she doesn’t go quietly he’s gonna take up naked gardening at the plot 🤣

Are there any other empty plots she could use rent?

I think people are being a bit harsh to the neighbours. Where I live people used to do stuff like this all the time (like my nans era, old valleys mentality). It wasn't people taking advantage of their neighbours, it was just people sharing things they didn't use.

This situation didn't strike me as unusual whatsoever when I read it. When I moved into my previous house my next door neighbours were using my driveway when the old owner was living there, difference with op's situation is they stopped immediately when the house was sold.

But obviously, of course she should give it back to you now you own the property.

Does Barbara grow pampas grass?
He might get into more than he bargained for.

I think Barbara probably does have squatters' rights if she's used and maintained the land for 10 years.

There's an app called Distance Land and Measurement or similar. It's really good.

I haven't RTFT so apologies if this has already been suggested, but if you would like to start using the allotment, and Barbara is very upset, is there some sort of agreement you could reach involving such like she may use it until this winter, so that the fruits (& veg) of her labour can be enjoyed, but she is not permitted to sow any new seeds, and she may transfer any established plants. This way she effectively has notice and can enjoy it for the rest of this year, and leave it 'dead' for you in the winter?

I’m surprised you can own an allotment! Very surprised.

Lucky for barbara you have alerted her to this potential issue early in the year, not in august when a years worth of effort would be going up in smoke.

you’ll need to get your skates on to get good use of the allotment. If you think you will have your hands full with house decorating, renovations, builders etc consider giving Barbara 6 months to use the allotment so you have time to plan and sow and compost etc.
allotments are very time consuming and i imagine you are quite busy in an old lady’s house already.

In England trespassing on private land is a civil offence not a criminal one. This is what I’m a bit worried about as the allotment is accessible and unless we physically throw her off (which we’d probably get arrested for) we can’t stop her from putting her 2 feet on that land Without legal intervention

This is not a garden, it may not legally be an allotment. Some useful websites to read https://www.allotment-garden.org/allotment-information/allotments-the-law/

and

https://www.stephens-scown.co.uk/real-estate/privately-rented-allotment-garden-tenancy-agreement/