How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

Correct at Justpontificating this is wrong

As part of the process of claiming adverse procession, and this allotment doesn’t fall within that anyway, but nevertheless for those at the back 🤨

The coucil / land registry contact the previous owner and ask if they have given permission for use and whether they want the property / land back. If the owner wants their property they say so. They have two years to claim their property back.

Its not just 10 years and it’s yours it’s potentially tens of thoudsands in solicitors fees and a two year wait in case the actual owner turns up and claims it back.

And that’s for property or land where the owner is missing or moved.

OPs case is completely different and would not fall into a viable adverse procession claim

@Moveoverdarlin maybe read the thread. Op paid for it, it’s a veg patch not an allotment

Why do people spout rubbish like they know everything there is to know about everything. Sometimes separate plots of land are sold with houses.

Another voice to say you need legal advice here. Early.

Yes they are in a lot of places. A lot however if there where no restrictions where sold old to developers for more houses to be built.

Haha! right?- if the neighbours are so outraged by this then there is nothing stopping them giving their allotment to Barbara is there?

My guess is they wont though. Funny how its always so easy to be generous with other people's things.

Plots of land are sold with houses all the time. Doesn’t matter what name the original builders and developers gave it. In this case, these cottages have been built with separate pieces of land which were given the name “allotments.” They are owned but the property owner and sold with the property.

They are not council or privately owned but rented out allotments. They are bits of land attached to specific houses. Barbara has zero claim. Absolutely none. The OP and her husband bought with vacant possession and on the day they got the keys, the became the owners of everything in and on their property. They own the allotment and the veg in it and the shed on it as it wasn’t removed before the sale and exchanged was complete. Barbara needs to go. She has no rights.

I could fence off some of my land right now and rent it at growing land. Without access from my house/ garden. But that allotment wouldn’t be mine if the new owners when the house sold. Because the land belongs to the house without a new deed.

Just like an uncles house that has a growing garden at the end of his garden. Technically there is a path inbetween the garden and growing garden but it’s not used so the owners of the terrace act as if it doesn’t exist but it could be reinstated and then he would have a house and garden and separate growing garden.

When you buy a house you get the current title deeds to the minute.
Try it yourself online with land registry, for £3 you get your deeds as they stand now and to the timed minute and day you requested them

Jesus Christ. The misinformation on this thread is astounding.

AP isn't going to be possible here because must be "without let" and here, as Babs said, it's with let a.k.a. permission.

The property is registered, I presume (because majority are these days and OP mentions seeing the extent of the property being sold in plan form, which is likely an Official Copy Filed Plan for Land Registry). It doesn't really matter if unregistered, save for chat about AP being even worse on here if unreggie land being talked about. More or less, the same rulz and still not application here due to authority given to Babs.

If Babs submitted an AP claim to Land Registry, they would give notice to the proprietors of that land and they would come forward with their superior claim to that title - having not seen the title nor any pre-registration deeds, only from what the OP says, it looks like their solicitor made it clear that this parcel of land formed part of the extent of the demise (i.e. the property being sold).

Babs must be told to fuck off, forthwith.

This is a job for a litigation solicitor (a small job, yes, but not a job for a conveyancer who deals with - surprise surprise - conveying property from one party to another). This is different. In my firm to give you some idea of costs, our litigation solicitors will see you for a 45 minute consult for £150 + VAT which includes a letter (to Babs, in this case). If there's any kickback, then costs will increase and if escalates to Court, the someone (Babs) could end up with a nasty Costs Order and a sad face in the Daily Mail (undoubtedly already on this thread).

No, I am not touting for biz and this is small potatoes and we can't be fucked with it.

I will, however, obviously continue to stalk this thread whilst during my work house notwithstanding my comment above...

Btw you do need to get it sorted OP as if you don't and then try and sell later than you will have your own problems. Barbara has to go and quick

Absolutely right.
Finally!

I think best not to engage in conversation with the old owner/person using the allotment and go straight to the solicitors who dealt with the sale and get them to threaten taking action. Beyond cheeky and im afraid you were too nice with the stuff in the garage. I think you should have given 48 hours for it to be cleared.

A few house moves back we viewed a house a few times and agreed to buy it. When we were viewing there was a Dormobile on the very wide drive/garden, on the day we moved in it was still there! We discovered that it wasn't the property of the people we'd bought from, it belonged to someone further down the road who wasn't at all pleased when we asked him to move it, he'd apparently had an agreement to park it there with the previous owner and couldn't see why it couldn't continue. It was a very unpleasant introduction to the new area!

actually plots of land can be. My late father in law's cottage was sold to him together with land that was not adjacent to the house and I have viewed a house with a similar plot of unattached land. You also see it on property programs on TV.

FIL twice got thrown off land - parts of large garden he was renting - he left after getting solicitor letters. He's still upset about that years later - though in both cases owners did ask him to stop doing something and he refused.

If they refuse to go after a solicitor letter assume it would be some sort of legal action.

It obviously depends on OP owning land - and not just having some rental rights.

Now you know why she was popular because all the neighbours take advantage of her.

Ahh. Interesting! Good news for the OP.

Just seen SphincterSaysWhat post which explain it so much better.

This is all very Midsomer Murders. I think OP you should give Joyce Barnaby a ring prior to Barbara turning up mysteriously offed in a freak parsnip accident

I was thinking exactly the same

CDC gesdx xx

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast "Does this fall into adverse possession I wonder?"

For it to be adverse possession the other person must have occupied the land without the permission of the owner. In this case, Barbara had the permission of the previous owner to use the land so this cannot be adverse possession.

If the situation was different and perhaps the previous owner never visited the allotment and Barbara just decided to sneakily start using it as her own without telling the owner then that could indeed lead to a claim of adverse possession.

What happens next depends on whether the house and piece of land are registered with HM Land Registry or not. Most houses are registered but if you have owned your home since 1990 and not taken out a mortgage on it since then, then the property may not be registered. This could well be the case with the seller on this thread.

In this situation, if Barbara could prove that she had occupied the allotment and used it as her own for at least 12 years without the owners permission then she could make a claim for adverse possession.

With registered land it's a lot more difficult to do. After 10 years Barbara would have to send a form to HM Land Registry along with all her evidence etc.

They will then send a letter to the owner saying something like "Barbara wants your allotment for herself, are you OK with that?" The owner then has 65 working days (13 weeks) in which to reply.

If the owner objects then Barbara doesn't get the allotment but if there is no reply from the owner then she does get it. However, even if the owner does object they then have to start legal action against Barbara within two years or the land will go to Barbara anyway.

There is one situation where it is a lot easier to get adverse possession and that is when there are two neighbours and one occupies the land of the other believing it was theirs. For example, if a fence has been erected in the wrong place so you have taken some of next doors garden.

In this case you had no intention of acquiring land you did not own – you thought all along that you owned it because that is where the fence was. It turns out that you were wrong about that, but it doesn't matter as you end up owning it in the end by virtue of adverse possession.

Sorry bum post

That’s a good point. This is the season when seeds go in or transplanting takes place.

Maybe the solicitor should outline she must not plant anymore.
But to be honest anything in or on the land is OPs now anyway.

I thought it was 20 years for adverse possession but having checked it appears it's 10 years for registered land and 12 years for unregistered - changed in 2002 (I am old and did my land law before that!)

But anyway it doesn't apply here (or the clock has only just started ticking) as you have to be using the land without permission and Barbara only started using the land without permission when the house was sold.