If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

You need to be ready to work at 9am, not still in the lift/loo or making your breakfast.

Logging on at your desk at 9am is fine

Yep. In the past I had problems with equipment not loading up properly (old equipment/outdated software) so I'd come in a bit earlier, make a note of my arrival time at my desk.

First thing I did, often with coat still on, was set my equipment up, switch it on, sometimes have to allow 10-15mins for my computer to boot up, then quickly go to the loo, making a drink, etc then come back to my computer and carry on by my official start time. 🌹

I worked in retail for a long time. I would always tell my teams that if they were expected to start at 9am for example, that meant being on the shopfloor, ready to go at 9am.

If that meant arriving at 8.59, dropping a bag off and being ready at 9am or coming in at 8.30 and having breakfast first, I didn't care as long as we were all ready at 9.

I didn't expect my teams to work unpaid at any point. If we had to stay later to shut the store for any reason, the team were paid until they left. If it was a managerial salaried position, I would give time in lieu.

Lots of managers I knew didn't have this approach however and were very much, you stay until we're done even if you're paid 9-6. And you come in by 8.50 regardless.

In a way it doesn't seem a bad rule, because people always use those 10-20 minutes with loo and coats etc. However not having flexibility generally is pointless, as people treat their employers as they are themselves treated. Morale matters. Expect the best of people and make your rules around that, then nobody minds if you pull up the odd lazy person.

Get in pre start time to be ready to go at start time. Logged on/at the front desk/whatever on time. Not making drinks, rolling in the door, as others have said.

I work from home now. A few years ago, when I commuted and worked in an office, I would regularly get in an hour early, this was due to trains and station parking. A few times, I turned up on time for whatever reasons. I had some staff going bonkers because they had officially changed their hours based on me, as a keyholder, being there early. They expected I would be there come what may, even though they weren't my hours, so they could come in earlier and leave earlier. They were furious when their flexible working trials couldn't continue. I have no idea what anyone was thinking.

That’s the route I’m likely to go down and redeploy her in a role that isn’t office-based which I know she won’t like.

I agree @pontipinemum . I was in a job some years ago (late 1990s,) and my hours were to start at 9a.m. and finish at 5.30p.m. (Half hour lunch.) My bus got me there at 8.35-8.40a.m... The next one would have got me there at 9.10-9.15am. So I had to take the earlier one.

Anyway, I got there at 8.37a.m. one day, and my manager told me my 9.00a.m. appointment was waiting for me (and had been 'sitting in reception since 8.30a.m.') I said 'errrm I don't actually start til 9a.m, and I just walked through the door...' Manager said 'just do your job Sabre, and get in there and do their interview.' I was fucking fuming.

After that, I started getting in at one or two minutes to nine. (Just took a very slow walk from the bus stop, and stopped and sat down on a bench half way for 6-7 minutes some days...) If bosses want us to come in early (regularly,) - like a quarter of an hour or more - they can start paying the extra money! 2 and a half hours a week extra that is for some people, and that's not including the time the fuckers keep people after work!

I regularly got kept back up to 30-40 minutes after work, (sometimes longer,) because a customer would keep me in reception/in the office, or on the phone! Never got an extra penny for it. If I said I want to/need to leave ON TIME, I would get mocked and called 'part-timer,' or accused of not being a team-player!

And hilariously, while they insist on people starting (and finishing) before they get PAID, they go batshit if you are 30 seconds late!

.

It depends whether 5pm is the time they finish work or 5pm is the time they can leave - the 2 are not the same.
In order for me to leave my desk at 5pm I would need to start unwinding 10 mins earlier - tidy things up, get my coat, turn things off etc.

Yep finish at 5 do the rest in your own time coat ect it’s the other way round when you clock on…at my place

Last sentence should read..

And hilariously, while they insist on people starting before they get PAID, and finishing AFTER they get paid, they go batshit if you are 30 seconds late!

You should be ready to start work by 9am which means coat off, coffee made and being at the desk but not beginning a start up process before you get paid. So switch that computer on when 9am hits. Any time before that and you're doing work for free. The computer is your company's property and you don't need to be touching that before your working hours. If you're expected to be taking calls and using the system the second lines open at 9am then they need to have it up and running for you already or pay you an earlier setting up time.

This. ^

He doesn't bank any TOIL for the beginning of shifts. The TOIL he has accrued would amount to a few weeks off. He won't ever take it because it's not possible.

This week, he is down to do a 50hr week. He will do at least 60.

Of course he's missing out but such is the nature of his job and precisely why he's just ended up in hospital for the best part of 8 days.

Ideally, it takes some give and take. Bosses shouldn't be expecting you to give them 10+ free minutes a day - especially those who claim you're 'late' if you don't - but equally, you shouldn't turn up on time and then take a leisurely 20 minutes in faffing (arranging your bag and coat, going for a wee, grabbing a coffee and breakfast, chatting with your friends about what you did yesterday evening/the news/the TV) before you're actually starting work.

If you have the kind of employer who will let you go early if it's quiet, that would undoubtedly incentivise you to get straight on for a good start first thing.

Turning on computers and other work set-up tasks should be factored in as work and not expected to be done on your own time. If your boss expects you to be booted up, logged on and all ready to start taking calls from 9am, then your job clearly cannot only start at 9am. If they have employed/pay you from that start time, they are clearly not good basic time managers, and that is their problem to resolve, not yours.

I do hate the culture that shames people and tries to make them feel guilty and like shirkers if they do the agreed time that they've been paid for and don't regularly 'tip' the boss with extra free time. That's just boss CFery. It's the equivalent of standing at a shop exit door and scowling at customers, as if they are shoplifters, when they have 'only' paid the stated price for their goods and not a single penny more.

Some people can rock up last minute and are fully capable of starting work at 9am and that’s great. For others, not so much and the first 10 minutes are bathroom breaks, grabbing a tea, chit chat etc . I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a workplace to ask you to arrive early however if you are consistently ready to go for 9am regardless of your arrival time then I also can’t see why a workplace would need to enforce that rule.

Personally I like to show up early incase of traffic or train delays . I use the extra time to relax before work and I feel more productive when my shift starts.

I bet anyone ringing our office when the phone lines opened at 9am would be mightily pissed off if our ancient computers were still warming up and we couldn't possibly have answered their query about their account. This is all work dependent. If you don't take phone calls from the public then you are probably fine with the whole logging on at precisely 9am.

So the employer should be adjusting the work times and laying employees accordingly.
If it takes a computer 10 minutes, for example, to set up then the employee should have a start time of 8:50am and be paid from that time.
Likewise, at the end of the day - c learning up, logging off, etc should be paid work time.

Getting a drink and going to the toilet before starting - do in your own unpaid time.

Turning on a computer, sorting out stock, doing admin, etc - should be paid time

It was in the US and applied across the staff for most jobs, expect those in the higher management roles.

Not sure that’s really correct for the US and it’s certainly not correct for the UK.

Most places the your day starts (and the duty clock starts ticking) at a nominated published time which is usually an hour (sometimes more, depends on the airport set up) before first departure of the day…I.e. about 1 hour before doors closed. FWIW the timing is set by the regulator, not the employer.

Reason for the hour up front is that is there’s a whole load of work related stuff that gets done by both pilots and cabin crew well before they get to the aircraft (there’s crew briefings to do and a lot more).

I've always got in 10 mins early unless there is a traffic issue. I often take laptop home so takes some time setting up again and like to have PC switched on for my start time. My boss is at another site so they wouldn't know I've arrived or not unless I'm logged on.
It seems petty to me to insist that this is 'unpaid time' and therefore refuse to do the above. I don't get paid to commute either but obviously still do it.

This.

Just ask yourself the question, is this something I'd do in my free time? If not, it's for your employer, and they should pay you.

FYI I have been the employer in this case, and 5-10m here or there comes very far down the list of good working characteristics.

I'm sick of the attitude of so many in society that doing stuff like this is too much to ask. It's a few minutes each day. It's give and take. If people don't take the p or do bare minimum then an employer is much more likely to flexible when you need it.
As a bare minimum your working hours are 9-5 for example then you need to be working at 9.

Depends what job …plus if there is no give with the employer there will definitely be no give with the employees…it’s give and take not take take take

The "be at your desk with your computer logged in" is silly. If my employer's equipment takes 5 minutes to load up, I wouldn't give them 6 mins of my time for free everyday - just like they wouldn't put up with me leaving 5 mins early everyday.

HOWEVER, England is the only place I've lived that cares so obsessivey about lateness to the exact minute.

I had a £2-per-hour waitressing job as a teen back in the 80s, in a very fancy restaurant. We were expected to arrive 30 minutes before our start time - so we could all sit together and have a meal! I think the idea was to fill us up so we didn't pinch the food we were serving. It was great - the chefs brought us big stews and stuff, while we all gossiped for half an hour. Happy days!!

I've been the employer too and I'd class it as good work ethic and it would come high up the list to me.