If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

And obviously I spend some of my working day on MN 😆It's the only place to come for chatting. The dog isn't a great conversationalist, very cute though

@ShowOfHands

My DH is expected at work 60 minutes before his start time. At least when he leaves late (nearly every day), he claims overtime. 6hrs a week he doesn't get paid for but has to be there. It gets on my wick.

What does this extra hour every day do to his base salary - ie not counting overtime? Does it bring him below NMW?

Also is he able to bank time off in lieu for these extra unpaid morning hours he's compelled to do? That's £hundreds per month he's losing in salary and potential benefits - including pension contributions. 🌹

However, dd worked in a restaurant for a large company and you could be penalised if you clocked in too early (or too late) for a shift. The aim was to try and clock in as close to the designated start time, without going over

This was probably to protect the company from breaching NMW rules. If people clocked in 'too early' and they're on or close to NMW, if they're recorded as working more hours than they're paid for, it works out they're being paid below NMW.

I agree that people should be ready to start work at their start time but there's usually things you can be doing while Teams starts up. Dusting keyboards, checking that your camera is aligned, untangling microphone cable, sorting paperwork, that sort of thing.

I had a job that started at 9 (very early in my working career) and my boss told me, after a few eeks, that they'd prefer it if I got in before 9, so I was ready to start, so ideally I would be there at 8.45
I complied and stated arriving at 8.45. My boss told me that if I was in the office, I was expected to be working, not getting a cup of tea first.
I went back to getting in at 9 and starting work immediately. They weren't willing to pay for the extra hour or so a week, and I wasn't prepared to do it for free.

Logging into a network/software is work. So if an employer wants to be shitty about it (and they're the ones that never recognise you being there 45 minutes after your finish time), it's their responsibility to have an effective roaming profile that doesn't take 20 minutes to load up.

Thankfully not in the UK! Cabin crew here get paid at the start of a briefing which is about 45 mins to one hour before take off. This time consists of a crew briefing, passengers boarding and doors closing.
USA is notorious though for not paying crew for all that time

🤣🤣

Absolutely….it’s not right you should get paid or you don’t do it ..

I disagree. Making a drink is part of being at work in an office. If you arrive at 8:55 and doing your emails at 9, then at 10 you spent 20 minutes in the kitchen having a coffee and a chat, that would be seen as a legitimate break. What's the difference with doing that break at 9?

I would say if you start work at nine you should be at your desk logged on to your computer and ready to start work from 9am.

No coming in to the building or parking the car just after 9. Talking to various people for however long it takes, going to the loo, hanging your coat up, checking your phone, making a cuppa, filing your water bottle up, eating breakfast, putting your lunch in the fridge, checking your make up, logging on, rummaging in your bag etc and before you know it its actually 9.30am before you actually do anything or are ready to work.

There's a difference between doing work for an hour or two then taking a break to make a cup of tea, and 'taking a break' when you haven't even started work yet... isn't there?

That said, I'm taken aback by those who suggest that turning on your PC, logging into Teams and other software - clearly work activities - should be done in your own time. If systems are slow, surely that's for your employer to suck it up or speed up the log in process.

I worked in a school where we were required to be out on morning duty at our start time.

One colleague regularly got a train that got into the station 5 minutes after our start time (provided it was on time), and her reasoning was that if she got the earlier train that would get her there a whole half hour early which she thought was too early. This included just under a 10 minute walk to the school then going upstairs to put her stuff down. She was genuinely shocked when she was told by management that she'd need to get that earlier train.

Another colleague drove in, but felt that 'clocking in' at the entrance by the work time was perfectly fine, even though she'd then go upstairs to the staff room and make herself a drink before coming down to duty. She also was late by 5/10 minutes regularly, which she didn't think was a big deal. She was reduced to tears once when the head passed by just as she was clocking in 'a little late' according to her and she replied 'that's 8 minutes, you're more than a little late'. She could not believe it, she really thought that it was ok to be just a little late and that the head had no right to tell her about it.

I arrive at 8.45 am so I can hang my coat up, switch my pc on and get myself a cup of coffee but at 4.45 pm I'm returning my cup to the kitchen, going to the toilet and tidying my desk ready for a bang on 5 pm departure so I see that as me getting my 15 minutes early back.

If you start work at 9am, then obviously you arrive between 8.45 and 8.50, in order to be ready on time. How is this difficult?

At my place of work if you're working days and you're not 5 minutes early, you're late (batshit)
If you're taking over a bridge watch you get there 15 minutes early so you can handover and get the other person away at their correct finishing time. Don't mind that so much because when you're finishing at 4am every extra minute feels like an hour.

Of all the colleagues I ever had I had one who would turn up about 5 to 15 mins late every day and then proceed to make breakfast and tea and then do her make up. She started working up to an hour after her start time. Our bosses were useless and never tackled her. At least 5 of us complained. Public sector and even though I had been a trade union rep it was people like her that stopped me doing it as she should have been sacked. Most people were diligent, hard working but there was the odd one.

I reckon you’re working at 9 on the dot.

I get this, I work for the LA and my start time is 7:30. If I am there, in uniform and ready for work at 7:30 I reckon I’m on time. I normally get in 7:25. If they want the vehicles inspected and ready to leave at 7:30 then they need to adjust start time.

If I clock in 10 minutes early I get deducted an extra break so nope.

I’ve got a staff member currently on half hours and is really doing everything they can to work less.

Firstly it was arguing that they only needed to work 3 hours and me asking for 3 hours 45 mins was “petty”.

She tried arriving bang on 9, spent 20 mins going to the toilet, making a tea, having a vape and restarting her computer, before a vape an hour later for 20 mins and a snack break. She then went for lunch at 11.30 before trying to leave at 12.15 and threatened to complain to HR when I said I expected her to make up the 1hr 25 mins that she had dicked around.

IMO if you are in a continual process setting eg the Frozen Food Industry you need to be in at least half an hour before the start of your shift to liaise with the previous production manager for a handover.

In that way any problems with staff/equipment etc can be sorted out before the next shift comes on duty.

If it all runs smooth then the previous manager can go home early.

The incoming manager should relieve you in the same way.

A similar system exists in Care Homes and hospitals.

9am on the dot. Some clever clogs will clock in at 5 to 9, enter the locker rooms, ,use the loo, redo their make up and stroll down at 10 past 9. Then complain when they get quartered 😁

I bet she'd be equally angry

• if you decided to only pay her for the actual hours she worked or
• decided that her job was so minimal, based on her actual time worked, her role wasn't needed any more. 🌹

I wfh now so it doesn't matter to me. But I disagree with almost everyone! As far as I'm concerned, once I step into the work building, I'm at work.

I've almost always been on either flexi time or filled out timesheets and have always put my start time as the time I arrive. I never took the piss. I'd usually buy a coffee on the way into work, so wouldn't need to stop to make one. Usually it took 5 minutes to take my coat off and get my laptop out or switch the computer on. Whatever time it takes booting up is work time! No ones ever had an issue with it and I'm well regarded at work.

Most jobs I've had, have involved commutes varying from 7hrs per week up to 13hrs per week. That's already the equivalent of a day or two's work coming out of my time. (Not even considering any time there were delays). So no, they're not getting any more of my time for nothing!

I start at 8. Get in at about 7.50 to log in and take my coat off etc. then have a look at emails and do anything urgent. Don't normally go and make a drink until 8.30ish and say a quick hello to people in or on the way to the kitchen. I do leave exactly on time though because I need to pick the kids up. If I stay later it's pre arranged and I log it as TOIL.
My workplace is pretty flexible though anyway. People arrive and leave at all different times depending on their other responsibilities/hours.

Unless it's a job where you HAVE to be there from opening time/until a certain time (e.g. taking calls from customers), rigidly enforcing presenteeism in most office jobs just seems like penalising people for being efficient. I think it's better for everyone to allow flexibility as long as the work gets done to the required standard.