Matthew Paris - assisted dying

[Noicant]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-cant-afford-a-taboo-on-assisted-dying-n6p8bfg9k

This made me feel deeply uncomfortable, he has a point about aging societies and the fact that we haven’t come anywhere near squaring the circle. It does feel very much like “it’s a good think if people feel pressured to just cut their life short if they are a burden”.

I’m a bit conflicted about this, on one hand I have an only child and I’m keenly aware that I never ever want to be a burden on her personally. I’m also very much in favour of assisted dying. But the idea that social pressure is exerted to almost make someone feel shame if they choose not to euthanise themselves is really quite horrific.

I get the black and white cost analysis and I do think many people would resist it (I have had elderly members of my family being absolutely clear that they expected everything possible would be done to keep them alive, they weren’t ready, one of them was furious at the idea that treatment would be withdrawn even though it was doing more damage than good by that point). But there would be people who are very vulnerable who would struggle to say “I don’t want this”.

It puts me in mind of MAID, I think a journal actually looked at the cost saving of implementing euthansia policies. On one hand theres a clinical honesty about that (which I think is lacking in our current political debate) but it also feels immensely inhumane and brutal.

It seems to me that there are few arguments that can be made against a right to die for the terminally ill, at least.

A family friend was a researcher with medical knowledge who was given the most frightening and desperate prognosis. They chose to end their life sooner than they should have had to and alone. No-one should have to reasonably conclude that that is their best option.

Yes. It bothers me a lot that we haven't addressed this. I see that people who have money will have choices, those who don't, increasingly won't.

Why if it was their clear and well thought through choice? But they should have never ever have had to go abroad for this, and should have not had to go alone for fear of loved ones being prosecuted. And should not have had to pay about 12.000- 15.000 to do so.

They should have had that choice in the UK, in their own home, in safety and with loved ones if they chose. That is why the law in the UK has to change ASAP.

Someone else will deciding to make me hang on until the bitter end and way way beyond my wishes. When I will be living with years of degeneration, incapacity and pain. Torture.

Have you made a living will?
If your worry is to be kept alive for years way beyond your wishes, you can decide before hand let’s say you are refusing any treatment of any kind bar painkillers if you have dementia and <insert whatever limit is yours>
This would ensure you are not kept alive ‘at all cost’.

Regardless of anyone’s position around euthanasia, I think it’s something essential to do. Just like we should be talking about what’s important ‘treatment’ wise around death (eg do you want to be sedated and in no pain but happy to have a bot more discomfort to have clarity of mind etc…)

And very often those who are pushing strongly for euthanasia are those with money who can afford care and choice.

Oh ok then, so if they have money then they are fair game to suffer?

Money can buy some care, but no dignity and a clean death.

It's not that they are fair game for suffering. It's actually that the lack of care for those who are not wealthy will be a social driver for euthanasia.

To wealthy people it may be another choice. To someone without means, depending on the state or family, it may be the choice. We should be real about human nature which is not all kindness.

apple.news/AVngCnyQfQlKlzftqwE5yqA

This is why everyone how thinks assisted dying is manageable with safe guards is wrong. Assisted dying is a lofty and misguided ideology.

Life is only as valuable as the person living it experiences it. The fact that mental trauma would not be a valid reason to chose to end your own life annoys me. I'd probably have chosen it as a teen. Yes, I've had brilliant days/times and experiences in my life but that wouldn't matter because I'd have chosen not to keep living if I could.
Sometimes I think a public guillotine, operated by the person themself would take all the burden off all the people that would have to be consulted in these decisions and would be quick.
I understand all the concern about protection of the vulnerable and coercion by whoever it would benefit needs to be looked at. Nobody should be condemned to life that does not serve them as they wanted it.

Also in sensible years past, doctors DID assist people to die in a humane way.

We treat our pets better when it comes to end of life care.

Having worked in a nursing home as a student, and having a hospice nurse as a MiL, all I can say is that I intend to kill myself, legally or not, before I’m in that position. There are many, many things worse than death and anyone who says otherwise is either naive or lying.

I absolutely support her right to this - I recently lost an acquaintance to cancer who was catholic and would never have chosen assisted during for himself. I just want the right to choose my end, in the same way.

I'm a carer and feel exactly the same as you.