WWYD - go to MIL for dinner or not?

[Scarlettjade]

bit of background - we usually go to MIL for Christmas and Easter dinner, she’s a great host and cook, but the dinner is always spoilt by SIL being a nightmare (she’s demanding, difficult, selfish), although everyone notices SIL being hard work, no one really says anything, DH may say “X please stop fussing so that we can eat our dinner” but it doesn’t really help.

I decided after last Christmas that I didn’t want to go to MIL for these dinners any more (or at least have a year or 2 off) because SIL makes the dinner stressful, DH agrees that she’s a nightmare.

So today (Easter Sunday) we’re going to a restaurant for a meal, as I’ve been getting ready to go out I feel a bit sad that we’re missing out on going to MIL to see her and enjoy her tasty dinners. It made me think, am I biting my nose off to spite my face? WWYD- would you just go to MIL and find a way of ignoring SIL?

So that I don’t drip feed, we can still visit MIL of course and we will do tomorrow, it’s more that we’re missing out on going there for a nice dinner today.

Also, some examples of SIL behaviour:
-everyone started eating christmas dinner and she decides that she doesn’t like where she’s sat so we all have to move around to accommodate her, passing our full dinner plates over the table etc.
-she notices that her DH has more potatoes on his plate than her, she makes a fuss about this
-her baby wakes up from nap whilst we are eating, she insists that MIL has to hold baby (meaning she has to stop eating her own dinner) because SIL is “starving and needs her food now”.
-she was in charge of desserts and brought a pack of 6 individual mouse things, but we were 7 people, she said my DD had to go without (obviously I gave DD mine, but not the point - she was happy to see DD go without)
-she didn’t like the wine that had been poured into her glass, asked MIL to go find a different bottle, even though there was already two different options on the table.

Most of these are things that would be fine if done by someone you like and love, but annoying if done by someone you dislike and irritates you.
Obviously most normal people tasked with dessert would make themselves be the person to miss out if they hadn't brought enough, but wanting a certain wine or wanting granny to hold the baby are within the realms of normal. Wanting to sit in a certain seat as a young parent is not beyond the real of normal.
At gatherings of any of my extended family I've never known there not be enough food, especially roasties, but definately something teenage siblings would traditionally have argued over. Not sure why the family had a flashback though!
Basically these are all forgivable by MIL so you are sort of stuck. If go with inviting mil and fil over on some weekends that don't have high pressure attached.

No, MIL doesn’t know the real reason why we haven’t gone to hers for dinner today. Last week she asked what we were doing for Easter, we said we’d booked to go out for dinner, she didn’t ask any questions and we didn’t explain.

I think MIL would stick up for SIL if I explained how I’m feeling, she’d say something like “you know how X is, take no notice”, that’s what she says to DH whenever he mentions anything.

It’s VERY difficult to take ‘no notice’ of her though, especially when her behaviour impacts everyone else around the table including my DD. I also don’t want my DD growing up seeing this behaviour being accepted and normalised.

I just remembered something that she done last Easter - she wanted to take chocolate eggs out of DD(4)s basket, she said the Easter egg hunt should be for everyone not just DD (at the time DD was the only child present, the egg hunt had been specifically set up for her), this is in addition to lots of other things, there’s just too many to mention.

Thanks for all the responses, the drama-free day has been lovely and confirmed that we made the right decision to go out.

Why did you have to go without pudding not DH or someone else in his family when SIL didn’t get one for your DD?

Sil has a dc.. Presumably family have pandered to her for at least a decade too long. They have created this monster....

I understand what you’re saying but tbf it’s quite impolite of mil to ask people to change seats once their food is already in front of them. I do agree that it’s not for op to say no though, it’s absolutely fkr DH to say no we’re not moving.

Just to add however that I do also agree with @Love51 and it’s possible that op justifiably dislikes SIL, but also that SIL has been reasonable in some of her requests but they all just seem annoying now because she is annoying. Eg. If she wanted a new seat because it was closer to tv, or some food or something that’s not reasonable. But if she wanted to be able to see her sleeping child for example then he’s, that seems a reasonable request. But I can see that if she’s often irritating and needs pandering too this would feel like just another thing, when you may be more than happy to accommodate someone else. Op only you know which it is.

'Can we all change seats? I want to be over there!'
'No thank you I'm fine where I am.'

Do you want to go? Will it impact your mental health or mood if you go? These are the only things you need to take into consideration really and you will then have your answer. Husband and children can always go without you! X

Why did people actually move seats?

I have a hard stare that would have scared SIL witless. Find yours.

Invite your mil for Bank Holiday lunch at yours tomorrow and have a nice afternoon with her.

Tbh it sounds like you enjoyed your meal out away from her
Personally I'd not go at Christmas either just say you'd prefer Christmas at home just the three of you
I'd find it really difficult not to react to her awful behaviour

Do these entire families of doormats only exist on MN, because I've never experienced it. In my family, your sister-in-law would have been firmly put in her place the first time she acted like such a spoiled brat. It's insane how adults pander to this shit. I think you should tell your mother-in-law why you didn't go to hers. Nothing will ever change until someone stands up to her.

I too have a nightmare SIL and an enabler MIL.

MIL is a kind and lovely person, but now we just refuse to spend any time at her house if SIL is there. MIL knows why we won't go - I actually think this is crucial, because a) it's the truth, b) there's no way we could come up with years of convincing excuses, and c) I think MIL needs to understand just how unacceptable SIL's behaviour is.

At the moment MIL complains about SIL, but still continues to enable her. If we all went along with it too, then it would just contribute to this giant fiction that SIL's behaviour is OK and should never have any consequences.

MIL has helped to create a monster and is suffering for it (SIL's behaviour affects MIL more than anyone). But she keeps on enabling and trying to sweep it under the carpet. I hope one day she stands up for herself, but I'm not holding my breath.

Same here, but OP’s in-laws are enabling this, and I can imagine a scenario where SIL makes a big scene if she’s challenged and the in-laws would then cluck around desperately trying to give her what she wants.
MIL should be told why her son and daughter avoided this visit. If she chooses to indulge her daughter at the expense of seeing her son and his family, that’s fine, but she needs to know she made that choice.

I backed away from ils when sil ruled their lives. Actually backfired badly for them. Me and dh split up and the dc never see any of them (now adults)And sil's dc never visit their dgps... Since sil no longer needs the free supply of childcare (6 dc she had) she doesn't bother with them either. They live a few mins from each other too...

I agree that it's annoying but I feel, a little bit, like "well that's family isn't it!".

Does she have any redeeming features? DH's aunt can really get on my wick and has a habit of making family meals so stressful. She would never leave anyone out of desserts though! The other things your SIL does I could shrug off but the dessert thing would be too much and suggests she's very thoughtless and selfish.

Some of it sounds annoying, but honestly, it's all low tier stuff. I wouldn't do myself out of a nice dinner just because of this.

My SIL is similar to this. Basically what she wants is to make sure she has MIL all to herself.

SIL would probably be ok with being allowed to be the dominant character for a while with us in attendance and obedient, but a) I’m not going to do that and b) even then the ante would just be upped and upped to push others away.

There’s a limit to what people can do in these circumstances, especially if what SIL actually wants is to have her parents all to herself and push your and you DH and DC out.

MIL has never stood up to my SIL about her behaviour for a few reasons.

Firstly, they had a very troubled time when SIL was a teenager and both ended up in antidepressants and MIL doesn’t want to go back to that level of fighting. Secondly, MIL likes seeing her grandkids and SIL has been known to use this as a weapon. Thirdly, MIL wants to rely on SIL in old age. She’s very mindful of “a son is a son til he finds him a wife, but a daughter is yours for the rest of your life”.

FIL did stand up to SIL when he was alive. Mostly just by not doing what she wanted or by siding with the person she was taking a pick at (so he would have given your DD his mousse and then gone to sit beside DD/given DD all his attention). And that did work temporarily but she’d always just move on to someone else or do stuff when he wasn’t around to see.

DH does stand up to SIL, both in the moment and by having a word. It works for a short while but the behaviour always resurfaces.

BIL even stands up to SIL, usually just by not going along with things, sometimes by calling her out,
sometimes by trying to counter her behaviour. But it doesn’t seem to stop her although it makes it better in the moment.

His parents and brother&wife basically stopped having anything to do with SIL, so it means SIL goes to MIL (or vice versa) for every special occasion.

And this is exactly what SIL wants. She wants her mum all to herself (when FIL was alive it was that she wanted her parents all to herself). She was like that with DH when they were kids too (she is a couple of years older).

When someone is set on something like that, it’s very, very difficult to do something about it.

If the person or people who are the “object of affection” are aware of it and take a very strong line there is some hope, but if not it’s really hard.

By this I mean, it would need your PIL to stand up to SIL’s behaviour in a very strong way. Basically saying something like “if you can’t behave we’ll need to do alternate years for Christmas/Easter”. Even then the passive aggression or open aggression would likely come at you in other forms.

TBF, MIL is right in a way, SIL is and will be a lot more involved than DH. DH calls once a fortnight, visits once a month. SIL is on the phone every day, round every weekend and usually during the week too. I’d have gotten more involved than I am if it hadn’t been so fraught, but I’m not entering into a turf war over looking after someone in their old age.

So I think there are only a few avenues open to you:

1. Avoid SIL much as possible and go without the meals at MILs wtc. Mitigate this by inviting PILs round to yours on other special occasions and ask MIL to bring sides/dessert etc
2. Offer to host some Xmas/Easter at your house and if SIL kicks off under your roof you stand up to her. You could and up looking like the bad guy here though.
3. Enlist PIL in a coalition to change SIL’s behaviour. Even if they do join in with this, she’s an adult now and her behaviour patterns are formed. People can only normal change their own behaviour as adults with effort and sometimes professional hel, so this would be a challenging and probably fruitless road.
4. Tough it out and don’t let it bother you. Easier said than done but possible if you think it’s worth it.

Go out for a nice meal and take MIL with you. Don’t invite SIL. If you’re all together at a family function, don’t pander to SIL. People like her just suck the joy out of everything!

@Scarlettjade you make a very good point about not wanting your daughter to see this behaviour normalised.

This was a major factor when we decided not to spend time with SIL any more - we don't want a person like that to be in our children's lives.