Can someone explain why are rivers and beaches are full of shit?

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

Is it Brexit? It’s happened so fast. 5 years ago we went to Cornwall and the seas were lovely. Now l keep reading pollution is being pumped into the sea.

Is it the water companies? Too much rain? The government🙄

Im 60, l vaguely remember this in the past 70’s/80’s. But not like this?

Or is it a perfect storm of everything?

Re. The Thames. Here’s an interesting piece about the pollution history of the Thames. It’s actually cleaner now than it’s been for years - it was effectively dead in the 1960’s. Pollution this winter will be higher this year because of the phenomenal amount of rain we’ve had but generally it is a relatively clean river. Completely anecdotally, my local stream was dead when I moved here and over 20 years I’ve seen it come back to life, although suspect the problem here was industry run off rather than sewage.

You’re right to be concerned, though. As a species we should be be doing better. And we shouldn’t be putting money before the environment.

In Scotland so public owned water company. There is a lot of hysteria around this and it has nothing to to with Brexit.

Victorian infrastructure was built to take away wastewater. In the last many decades roads, hard standing areas from gardens, public places all now have been connected and drain to those same sewers. During heavy rain the sewer, while it could comfortably take the foul flows, cannot take the volume of surface water flows also being directed into it. Relief overflows operate to stop the sewers backing up and flooding houses etc. climate change and everyone paving etc gardens not helping. It’s a longstanding issue that has evolved over decades.

Complex modelling is undertaken to understand the impact the overflow has on the watercourse. If it is shown to have an impact improvements are made to reduce spills and to ensure there is no impact on water quality.

it could be solved by building separate systems but this would cost billions. Of public money. I’m not sure in such dire straits with NHS, child poverty etc these overflows operating in heavy rain/ storms etc would be top priority for that spending but that’s the decision.

When the water companies were privatised, back in 1989, the tax payers shouldered the massive debts they had previously incurred, so that the could be a prospect on the stock markets

However, after privatisation, not only did the business management did not improve, infrastructure spending went through the floor as shareholders were prioritised

The shareholders are mainly foreign investors and they have profited while our infrastructure deteriorated

Major shareholders have borrowed against the companies, so they are now shouldering more debt and increasingly unable to function

Sewage treatment, infrastructure upgrades, reservoir provision have been put on hold to pay and pay and pay with our money

Now the waste infrastructure can't cope with the increased rainfall during the autumn and winter months, the sewage treatment infrastructure is overwhelmed, the inadequate reservoirs can't cope with increased demand during the spring and summer months and the shareholders are refusing to bail out the companies they sucked dry for the last 35 years

To upgrade the entire system will cost more than HS2 has had thrown at it and the water companies, even though they've taken that amount of money from us over the decades, has no reserves and nothing to work with

As they are now such rotten financial prospects, they can't incur more debt by borrowing from/investing in the stock market as no one will deal with them

Renationalisation will cripple this country, but the stock market will do fuck all for us

There's also a lot of pollution from farms - e.g. slurry, chicken waste, runoff from arable fields. The Environment Agency's budget has been slashed, especially the parts for monitoring and enforcement (i.e. prosecutions). A lot of farmers rightly think they can just get away with it because no-one is checking.

I thought they were debt free when removed from nationalisation.

Beautifully put, @Gingernaut, and some of us are old enough to remember that, for all the talk about "offering more money to attract the best", too many of the failed existing managers simply continued in post - though on massively higher salaries

FWIW I've no ideological objection to private enterprise where real choice is involved, but not for essential infrastructure and certainly not for something as fundamental as water and sewerage

I thought they were debt free when removed from nationalisation

Edited to add they were, OP - because as Gingernaut just mentioned, we paid the debts off for them so they could go forward unencumbered

Aaaaah l see.

What a mess. Bloody Tory governments😡

Monitoring, intolerance and awareness is only thing that changed (both increased a lot)

Is a Very very chronic problem that goes back forever. The water quality is probably hugely better now than say 30-40-50 years ago. Last 20 years, the change in actual density of coliforms is more uncertain, but what definitely changed was more monitoring & huge more awareness and less tolerance of the problem.

Waterloo Sunset, anyone?

Indeed, OP, and actually it's even worse than that

According to Wiki, England and Wales are the only countries worldwide to have totally privatised water services. Others have it in various areas/cities and for selected provisions, but have stopped short of handing the whole thing to private enterprise

Probably because they've got more sense ... yes, even in the US where capitalism is often king ... but then if your main aim is to hand cash to cronies it's important to make sure that can't be interrupted

Blair was elected three times since they were privatised so why didn't Labour do something about it then ??????????????

I seem to remember water quality improved under Blair?

Tories have been in 14 years. Enough time to sort it.

The seas were filled with sewage years ago when I was a child.
Thames water had so much debt, disgusting privatisation, but even without that, repairing much of the infrastructure would mean closing down large parts of London and that simply can't happen.

They were debt free because Margaret Thatcher's Tory government bailed them out before the shares were floated

The government wrote off £5bn of debt, a sum almost unheard of at the time

It is a chronic problem - and way before Brexit.

I think that with Brexit, we have relaxed / changed our approach to monitoring water quality and we have a less regulated environment. I am sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

UK waters are too polluted to swim in – but European countries offer answers (theconversation.com)

It is becoming an issue for ALL parties to look at.

There are conflicting reports, which DEFRA tried and failed to counter, but yes, it looks like the UK government is going to change the criteria for what constitutes clean water

https://www.carvemag.com/2023/11/sass-shocking-new-report-on-uk-water-quality/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/27/england-to-diverge-from-eu-water-monitoring-standards

https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/11/01/inaccurate-coverage-on-monitoring-water-quality-in-england/

According to Wiki, England and Wales are the only countries worldwide to have totally privatised water services.

Because no other country in the world is so fucking stupid as to put a critical piece of national infrastructure into the hands of foreign investors.

Fuck bullets and bodies, there is no way the UK could fight anyone for any period of time simply because the water and sewage systems couldn't cope.

Also, why is it I still can't choose my water company ? Which was one of the key selling points of privatisation.

That’s not true though. The UK recently won awards for the cleanliness of its rivers and beaches. I remember back in the day (70s) our local streams and rivers were essentially dead of life but joining the EU compelled us to change things and we did. Only thing I can think of is Brexit and the loosening of EU regulations much like we are now allowed to use weed killers that kill bees.

You could probably have developed film in the Thames in the 50s.

Infrastructure designed and built for a population that was not of this size can't cope.

Follow Feargal Sharkey is you really want know what an utter shit show (literally) the water companies are. The heavy rain thing is a red herring - they pump out untreated sewage whatever the weather. Don’t fall for their lies. Profits over investing in the infrastructure.

Tories privatised water supply and sewage services though, and look where we are with shareholders getting the money that should be put into infrastructure. So she isn’t wrong. It is the Tories.

Yeah and it can’t cope because water companies don’t invest in infrastructure…

Because there are too many people coming in. 5,000 this year so far. The country can't keep up.

Privatisation leading to prioritising profit over service. They don’t invest in infrastructure so when we get heavy rain the old system doesn’t cope. Then it is dumped into rivers and the sea to stop sewage backing up.
I live in Southern Water area and they are totally awful. Leaks somewhere near me every week. Several periods without water and/ or brown undrinkable water or then so much chlorine in it when they flush the system that people get rashes and stomach upsets.
I no longer drink it at all and neither does my cat.
Problem is that we are a captive customer base so no option to go elsewhere just have to put up with a rubbish service.
The fines they get for sewage in rivers and seas are not big enough. More has to be done including personal liability for the top management.

You got your facts wrong

Long-term international migration, provisional - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

508,000.

At least do some research