Lovely article on having children by Janice Turner

[Swoopy]

I so agree with her about the joy of it all and feeling you’re not really supposed to express it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/874a2d65-8938-4433-a58b-adf3c62535e7?shareToken=b60694d08ea4051e62db552e0ff8288c

I think I can understand the physical bliss of being with someone you love and caring for them. It's like superlove, right? If it's what you truly want and all the right hormones are released at the right time I have no doubt it's a perfect life choice. All the hard stuff becomes part of a sort of evolutionary calling.

But I don't think it's right for her (she's not the only one ofc) to be so confident that what makes her happy will make others happy. The stuff about children stopping you realising yourself misses the point. I don't expect to be anything special myself - I just know myself and how I'd like to spend my time.

TBH I think it is mostly hormones as now I am in menopause, I have lost a lot of interest in parenting and am more interested in doing stuff for myself!

I think that the conversation on here is far more interesting, relatable and thought provoking than the article.

Like a previous poster, I read the article hoping to understand where the joy is supposed to come from, as I don’t really get it. I still don’t.

i think that some women ( like my MIL) are brilliantly suited to motherhood and are great at it, and have great joy from it ( and also have personal circumstances that have supported this. Other women, like my mother and I, just aren’t suited to it in the same way, and also have circumstances that don’t support it, and indeed make things harder.

The pendulum previously was at ‘motherhood is your highest calling and aspiration and it’s only there that you get fulfilment and joy ‘, then it swung to ‘ motherhood is hard, a slog and messes up your life’: ’ people’s truth is somewhere on that scale. ( mine is at the slog end).

Motherland is such a better ,funnier programme than Outnumbered imho !

To all those saying "I don't get it, I have small kids and it's a hard painful slog', I felt just like you around 10 years ago. It only really changed when the kids turned 10/11 and became glued to their devices/didn't need me so much. I cherish getting the chance to talk to them now and dwell fondly on the days when they would sit on my lap and zone out watching In The Night Garden. I didn't appreciate it then, but I do in retrospect.

I do understand that, the point is though that I find parenting small children hard, and being told that in a few years I will look back on these hard bits fondly because it gets even worse, and then they leave you all together isn't exactly a great advert for 'the joy of motherhood'

I suppose it isn't really! I don't regret it though - if nothing else, I have grown a lot as a person, in ways I don't think I would have if I hadn't had my kids. And the memory of those times when it was quiet and calm is a golden one which I wouldn't trade for anything.

Also tbf DS1 does come out of his room every night and chat to us while he is watching Big Bang Theory. DS2 is more of a molerat but one challenge at a time 😂

I find myself aching for the tiny littles babies they were while being overwhelming excited to find out who they will become. That is in between the moments where I question how I will make it through the day because every single time I try to do something one of them gets in the way. It took me three hours to clean the kitchen this weekend because they kept fighting and needed things sorting out. But I also held my eldest as he struggled with home work, took delight in middle having a friend over and held on tight when my small hurt herself.

All that is to say it is bloody hard and it feels relentless but there are moments. This article has been a good reminder for me at least to look for them and take a note of them.

Mine are grown, and I do miss the days when they were small and I could solve their problems with chocolate.

Yep, that's exactly how I feel.

It's really not the case (at least in my circles) that women can't talk about the joy of motherhood. I'm constantly being told by my peers that "you don't know real love until you have a baby" or "this is the best thing I've ever done" or "this was the happiest day of my life". Women should have every right to talk about what makes them happy, just don't make assumptions about what would make me happy. As PP have said - some women really suit motherhood, some don't.

Small DC are boring and very draining. My solution was to go away by myself for the odd weekends leaving DH to take care of them. I did the same for him. I took longer breaks as they got older.

On MN this shocks some people because they think you have to go everywhere with your family until DC turn 18. There are a lot of posters who think going anywhere on your own is some kind of cardinal sin. Personally, I found these breaks a game changer.

The problem is that it's really difficult to explain, but I'll try.

The feeling of being a superwoman because you have gestated and birthed a human being (however the baby is born) - birth was difficult and not in any way joyful but I honestly felt that I could do ANYTHING after I did that. And mothers who have c-sections may not feel the same way but they have still created a human with their own body; it's a bloody miracle.

The feeling of overwhelming, unconditional love for your child. It makes any other love you have felt for anyone else before pale in comparison. There is endless joy in looking at them, cuddling them, smelling them (yes I still love to sniff my kids' heads and they are not babies ), hearing their voices; talking, singing, laughing. There is endless joy in witnessing their joy at discovering the world - the pleasures and fascinations of life - and watching their delight and pride as they learn all sorts of skills and discover what their bodies and minds are capable of. Events like Christmas, Easter and birthdays become magical because you're creating the magic and when you see their excitement and joy, it makes your heart burst. And the strength of the love they give back to you in return - you are the single most important person in their world (at least when they're little). When they spontaneously tell you they love you, or draw you a picture or write you a card telling you that you're the best mum in the world.

My favourite things are the sound of my children laughing, moments when I see/hear them interact with each other in loving ways (they fight a lot but the nice moments do happen), and the rare moments when they bundle into bed with us without elbowing or jumping on anyone and we have a massive hug and I just think this is it, this is what it's all for.

And this is why we don't talk about it, because reading that back, I have made myself want to vomit
I swear I was never sentimental before having children, my mum would get all emotional about tiny things and I would roll my eyes... I get it now!
Motherhood has made me closer to my own mother, that was an unexpected bonus for me. (I know it doesn't happen for everyone.)

I agree with all that @AnotherEmma but I never say any of it because it is very vomit inducing, as you say. Tender feelings lose their meaning when talked about.

Cuddles in bed? Watching tv together? That’s… pleasant, but there are many better moments in my day than that - none of which involve my daughter.

It's not really the activity it's the time the bonding it's likely a oxytocin hit - and those activities are mentioned because they seem to unimportant yet mean so much to many. There are different ways of bonding though so for others it will be different activities - DH and his Dad is was going to his worksites as a child the journey there and back just two of them hanging out - there was a song that had that theme that really spoke to DH as an adult with our own young kids.

It's clear though from on here - the Disney dad thread - the AIBU thread where grandparents raised kids and now realised with parents lack of interest in their kids - that some parents never develop those close bonds - kids seem to grow up okay.

I do know woman who hate motherhood though - and it's not always who you'd think or those without a lot of support - so it is a huge gamble. Still best thing I ever did but so often you can't say that as it upsets others with different experiences or different aspirations in life.

I find the sound of it very crowding. I wouldn't like the weight of a child on me, needing me so much. I like love to be somewhat equal.

I remember being a child and finding other children very stressful to be around and I guess I never grew out of that 🤣

@ChristmasGutPunch I don think anyone is saying motherhood is for everyone or should be compulsory or that every mother's experience is the same.

More that some of us do enjoy motherhood - and it would be nice to say that or as articled says have that represent in media sometimes - without others jumping up that is disrespectful or sounds disgusting or as I have seen posters on here insist that it's always awful and mother that do enjoy it are liars or lack imagination and are a bit thick.

There's lots of things in life that aren't for me and that's fine people are different.

I agree, there are an awful lot of very negative depictions of motherhood but at the same time there is an awful lot of pressure to say how wonderful you are finding it all. I don’t really feel I can relate to either ideology.
I love motherhood at times and at other times I find it stressful. This seems to be accepted in the workplace e.g you may love being a doctor but equally enjoy your days off. There is an understanding that some parts of your job are not enjoyable at all but other aspects are wonderful. You are allowed to moan about the stressful bits and be happy about the joyful. It is expected that the job is tiring and you need a rest and times when you don’t enjoy your job at all. I enjoy being a mother but also love my time off when they are at school/nursery etc, you are allowed nowadays to want a career but are expected to want to spend all your free time with your kids. You are expected to not be able to get enough of them which can feel quite oppressive. At the same time sometimes think it is sad when certain writers seem to want to take the shine off the beauty of those lovely afternoons cuddled up with a newborn and dismiss the bliss felt by many mothers as a purely social construction /propaganda rather than appreciate the the genuine positive experiences these so called ‘romanticised’ depictions have come about from

Yeah I agree - the world would be much better if we could all recognise that difference exists (and is a good thing!).