England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Perhaps we need a comeback of Head teachers like Mr Gryce from Kes.

People on forums talking about this scene say this is just what secondary schools were like in 1960's/70's.

In the secondary moderns at least.

They expel the ones who don't

Or don't let them in in the first place.

No, it's about parental attitude and support. Same as with Faith schools.

"Parents who can be bothered" make a massive difference and it's those who will seek out the best school option, whether it's a private one (paid for), faith one (go to church for the requisite amount of time), grammar (pay for tuition or do practice papers with their kids) or a state one further away with better results (google searching), they'll also make more effort to ensure their child behaves, knows the rules, does their homework, etc.

The parents who can't be bothered and just choose the nearest school for their convenience are the ones more likely not to be bothered checking their kid has done their homework, gives them the impression rules don't matter, doesn't support the school re punishments, etc.

Well a lot if it is about money.
If you have one teacher to 15 children in a class, behaviour management becomes 50%easier than teaching a class of 30 children.
50%less time marking=more time doing everything else.
More money=you can outsource clubs rather than forcing teachers tocdo them for free during lunchbreaks/after school.
If you have sufficient money to hire enough support staff to chase attendance and a decent photocopier that works the first time you click "print" plus a decent trimmer to trim 30 pieces of paper at once rather than 5 at a time, you get teachers who have twice as long to spend reading 1:1 with children who need extra support during breaks/lunchtime or can use this time to be with the kids eg eating lunch together/supervising breaks and playing with them to model what kind, respectful behaviour looks like.

More money is EVERYTHING

She certainly doesn’t have a vocation to teach, does anyone?

I did, and do. So much that I’m still teaching at 70, albeit part time and in a different sector. It’s likely that having that vocation is what keeps many teachers in the classroom, despite everything else.

N.B. A person having a vocation or calling to do anything is not a good reason for treating them badly or paying them less.

I’m a teacher of 25 years; I work in a good secondary school with effective and supportive leadership and the kids on the whole are great. The issue is that the job has got bigger, classes are bigger and there is no time to do all of the extra stuff we are expected to do.

I get to work at 7.30/8.00 every day and leave at 5/5.30 with the ‘to do’ list on my desk rarely completed. I have one 10 min break mid morning - if I’m lucky I’ll grab a coffee and a 30 min lunch break. Today I had 5 lessons and form time: thats around 100 different children coming in and out of my classroom that I need to plan for, teach and assess. I had two meetings today,

in try really hard not to bring work home (we don’t get paid over time or get time off in lieu) but sometimes I have to. Or I can stay at school until 7 to get it done, I refuse to do that anymore.

before the end of this week I have end of term grades to put in tomorrow (didn’t manage to do it today) loads of emails to answer, a club to run, newsletter article to write, two parents to call and I wilL have to fit in time to sit with a student who wants advice on uni, another one who is not attending school, and send work to pupils absent from school. That’s all the pre planned stuff - when an issue happens in a lesson or a pupil is upset, or a parent calls I’ll also have to fit all of that in. I have two more meetings, break duty, after school intervention and lots more lessons to get through.

Also know that when you log onto your child’s parents evening online slot (thank goodness for those) - that teacher has a 3 hour block of appointments after a 10 hour day dealing with teenagers. It’s exhausting.

I could go on. I used to love teaching but now I’m just tired all the time and just hanging on a few more years to maximise my pension. You can’t expect more and more from teachers with less and less time and money.

I wouldn’t advise anyone to go into teaching which is really sad, we are doing our young people a disservice with the education they are getting.

(and apologies for typos / spelling - it’s been a long day)

Money isn't ''Everything'' - as often the parents of children as @karriecreamer says in her post above that parents CARE more in private, Grammar and Faith based schools.

I knew a poor family growing up and their children got full scholarships to St Pauls /Godolpin and Latymer / Grammar as the parents cared.

They didn't have two pennies to rub together, but the parental input was massive.

Lovely kids, caring parents.
They lived in a shabby but lovely house near Richmond Park and rented out the Edwardian stables in their garden to horse owners to bring in extra money.

"There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords."

I have frequented these boards for a long, long time and I've not seen that.
Having been a teacher for over 35 years I can tell you that it most certainly is NOT family-friendly (during term time, anyway).

To the posters who think online teaching is a good solution or overseas recruitment.
In primary, I would say the majority of excellent teaching is about forming trust with the pupils, being consistent, fair and calm and an excellent communicator who knows the children on a professional level yes, but also in a semi-parent role, in that you must care about their wellbeing as individuals as well as their learning of formal subjects.
This just isn't possible online or if there is a language barrier.

E.g. in my class of 28, having been with them 5 days a week all academic year, I now know just by looking at them as they walk in whether or not they are ready to learn, which ones need more support that day, which haven't had enough sleep, which have already cried that morning etc. They now all trust me enough to ask first thing if they need breakfast from my stash at my desk, or if they have a packed lunch but also want a school dinner.

Not to mention by the time they have come in, I may have spoken to 4 sets of parents on the phone, 10 parents on the door, had 2 messages from the office regarding children and also, unfortunately, been told from the police about any domestic abuse incidents regarding children in my class or their siblings the previous evening.

With wraparound clubs taken into account plus both parents working, I am often the one who spends the most hours with my pupils most days. That is a big responsibility and privilege and I don't expect all children in my class to "just" trust me, nor do I assume a handover from the previous year is enough for me to truly know my learners and the best way to teach them.
It takes time and consistency, and, ultimately, face to face communication.

If you don't get that, then you really don't understand what excellent teaching is all about.

I’m another awol teacher. Poor discipline, ridiculous hours, constant reinventing the wheel, and the uncompetitive salary is the icing on the cake. Saying it’s a vocation is not an excuse to throw the staff under the bus. I can teach physics, maths and chemistry to ks5, but I’m back in engineering doing project management for c40% more money and half the hours, plus when I’m on holiday I am actually on holiday.

Please read my post above.
Also, as an aside, why is people saying part of what appeals about teaching is the holidays and (haha!) Ability to fit it around having children a negative reason for wanting to be a teacher?
Surely it illustrates you care deeply about your own children?
Are you suggesting you can't have this motivation and still be an excellent teacher? Being a parent and taking that responsibility seriously shouldn't be used by you to assume people aren't motivated to work exceptionally hard.

She certainly doesn’t have a vocation to teach, does anyone?

Er, yes, they do. Some actually love teaching, now there's a thing! What they don't love is the lack of support, utter twaddle methodology and mindless paperwork shifting, etc. etc. that goes with it (all of which has been itemised before).

'Schoolmarmish'? Wonderful, even funnier - very 'Prime of Miss Jean Brodie'!

The schoolmarmish replies and tone of some posters on this thread say a lot about the poster’s personalities and of the teaching being conducted in the classrooms.

And the pompous waffle, sweeping statements and lack of any detailed responses to back up previous posts definitely say a lot about a poster's personality.

Jesus, the suggestion that middle class parents parent better because they care more and pay for their 'nice' children to meet other 'nice' children is so offensive I don't know where to begin.

I believe in Scotland everyone attends catchment schools, there are no grammar schools, and private schools are rarer, especially outside the big cities. I don't believe Scottish parents, or parents living in poverty, care less about their children, want less for their children, or are lazy parents.

There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post from a current teacher in an English state school saying they went into teaching for the family life it affords!

In contrast, I have seen plenty of posts by people wanting to retrain in teaching so that can spend more time with their kids in a job that ‘fits around the family’ and teachers replying that actually it doesn’t nin term times and can be extremely inflexible.

Schoolmarmish also v misogynistic.

My DD has ASD and ADHD. She's classed as persistently absent.

One of her triggers for anxiety is too many unexpected changes to her expected day. The constant unknown regarding lessons and who will be teaching has been a significant part of her attendance difficulties.

Her situation and health is complex but the constant cover lessons has been a nightmare for her.

I've no idea what the answer is but the education system is crumbling.

There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords.

No there aren't. Evidence of these 'many' threads please?

The schoolmarmish replies and tone of some posters on this thread say a lot
about the poster’s personalities and of the teaching being conducted in the classrooms.

Ignorant, sexist bullshit.

Who mentioned class?

They could get them from Northern Ireland they have too many. Just saying.

Shinyandnew1, don't worry, your quote is from icehockeyflowers, who seems to make up the script as they go along. You won't get any answers to your points. But don't worry, ice is confident teachers will be recruited from abroad, who will of course 'save the day', restore teaching, cope with the paperwork, cure poor behaviour and save the world - all during their morning break. So rest easy, everyone. 😂

edited for missing word

I had the exact same experience.

I know this is wildly off the point, but I literally had the same headteacher in primary school as this guy (quoted below), back in the early 1970s. I am ten years older than him, but the headteacher didn't change.

I'm not in any way endorsing the attitudes of this columnist, but my experience of primary school was very similar. Also, my own DDs experiences of school (the youngest did her A levels 12 years ago) was very different from the current stories I read here.

I had the same headteacher as this guy (although, as girls, we only got to play rounders and netball rather than football and cricket):-

Mr Chips is making a comeback

For four years, from age seven to 11, the most important man in my life, after my father, was Eric Sutton.

I certainly saw more of him than my dad, who was often away on business. Mr Sutton — never Eric, heaven forfend — was there five, sometimes six, days a week.

He was the headmaster of my primary school, an important influence in my formative years. Mr Sutton had the air of a Regimental Sergeant Major and ran the school with military efficiency — not surprising, really, given that he’d served as an NCO in the Army Education Corps during World War II.

He had a piercing parade-ground bark, which could halt small boys in their tracks up to 100 yards away. That said, his bark was worse than his bite.

Mr Sutton was a disciplinarian with a fearsome cane on the wall of his study. I can’t remember him ever wielding it in anger. Maybe I’ve simply forgotten. But the prospect was deterrent enough.

If he did have to administer corporal punishment, it would have been in the spirit of the old adage: This is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you, boy.

[...]

Mr Sutton was a great believer in the virtues of sport. Our Dickensian school building didn’t have a playing field, so he’d march us crocodile-style to the local ‘rec’, rain or shine. In winter, we played football, in summer cricket.

After school and on Saturdays, he’d take teams to compete in tournaments. And he expected us to win. Eric Sutton would never settle for second best.

All this team sport was in addition to several sessions of vigorous PE every week and trips to the local open-air swimming pool.

He may have lain great importance on our physical development, but he gave equal — if not more — weight to nurturing our intellectual capacity.

These days, ‘passion’ is a much abused cliche. Every inept reality TV contestant professes their ‘passion’ for everything from fairy cakes to break-dancing. But Mr Sutton really was passionate about education in general and literacy in particular.

It was his ambition to get as many of his pupils as possible into grammar school, which he saw as the gateway to a better future. He succeeded spectacularly, his school regularly topping the table of 11-plus passes.

Some younger readers may think this sounds like a posh prep school for the privileged children of the well-off. Nothing could be further from the truth.

West Town Juniors and Mixed Infants, Williamson Avenue, Peterborough, was what we would now call a ‘bog standard’ state school.

But there was nothing ‘bog standard’ about the ethos instilled by Eric Sutton, who could have held his own in any exclusive fee-paying establishment.

He was a dapper man who always wore a sports jacket, complete with leather patches on the elbows, and cavalry twill trousers. He wouldn’t have been seen dead without a shirt and tie — unlike some of the slovenly scruffs on parade at the teachers’ union conferences every Easter.

Which brings me to the reason I’m taking a trip down Memory Lane today — the news that there has been a significant increase in the number of men training as primary school teachers.

[Edit right-wing rant that I don't wish to be associated with]

All this combined with relatively low wages has conspired against encouraging any young family man to become a primary school teacher.

The good news is that recent changes which allow teachers to earn a salary while they train in school have begun to attract more men into the profession. And the Government has launched a campaign to persuade male graduates to take up a career in primary education.

The numbers applying have risen by 51 per cent, albeit from a low base.

Eric Sutton would have approved.

It's heavily implied.

I can’t go back over old threads and copy and paste but the posts saying that the holidays are the reason they went into teaching are there.

The behavioural issues are a bigger issue in secondary rather than primary
and the solutions are needed in secondary.

But replying to these threads isn’t helping anyone. It’s just an echo chamber of people listing issues, knocking down possible solutions. pulling posts apart. So much negativity listing so many issues that cant and won’t be resolved by paying more which seems to be the only acceptable answer to some of the posters here. .

My advise, for what it is worth, is to look for roles in private schools if you want to continue teaching or else a change of career. At this stage, after reading the posts in this thread, it seems schools can’t be in that much of a worse position anyway. The Gov will recruit people who’d like come - whether they stay or leave is no worse than whether a Uk teacher stays or leaves. The bottom line is a change is needed and it’s time to try alternatives.

There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords.

Would you like to tell us about those 'so many' threads with posts - and which ones they are? Some examples would be good.