England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

It's just appalling reading these stories.
It seems that ''Problem'' families have problem children and the cycle of aggression continues through the generations.

Nature or nurture?

Probably both.

Unless a parent is willing to back the school up when their child is violent or aggressive, what hope is there?

In my LA any breakfast clubs are free of charge.

But surely ‘neither were offered the job’ says they weren't as good as your student son thought…

Or maybe they had multiple interviews and accepted another school.

There is much more to selecting teachers than one lesson taught.

Candidates have to demonstrate the Teachers Standards. Those appointing need to be sure of this.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a750668ed915d3c7d529cad/Teachers_standard_information.pdf

I was part of a selection process recently for a teaching post.
First...and second advert, noone suitable so noone shortlisted at the application stage.

Advertised a third time, shortlisted five candidates.

One had accepted a job before interview day so didn't attend.

One planned a lesson in error, nothing that hit the brief required, one struggled in interview and another with the school council panel. One also failed to manage the tasks set during the day of selection.

However, as this was the third time advertising, using the selection criteria a candidate was chosen and offered the job. This candidate had accepted another job by the time the call was made to her so declined.

The job was offered to the second candidate, with leaders/governors agreeing the support needed for this candidate to meet the criteria. He had decided the school wasn't right for him.

The last candidate ( able to meet criteria with support) was called and offered the job.
She accepted with ‘I am surprised to be offered this , I thought I was the worst and least experienced, on the day…..’

That’s obviously not true since nowhere have I insulted schools. If you spent a bit more time on content you’d have seen that I blame parents for not taking the time to do what they should for foundational learning. (And for not toilet training reception class children, but that was a side issue.)

I simply don’t think the curriculum is as exacting as is being said. I’m happy to accept the criticism that the curriculum might be too crowded, because as I’ve no way of knowing or judging that I’ll take teachers’ word for it. As you can check, I’ve said nothing to the contrary.

Neither, by the way, did I say that it was just a matter of times tables. You’ll know that because you quoted me. Are multiplication and division out of reach of 8-year-olds too?

Here’s some tone policing for you: don’t be so defensive. You posted in Chat, presumably for traffic and a general audience. So non-teachers will comment. And not all the comments will suit you. (I don’t go into The staffroom.)

Unfortunately many children in this country depend on schools to care for them, yes. This isn’t a school or teacher problem- it is societal. The inequality gap is widening.

My older son for example just had two of these for one of his A level subjects and said both were good- one actually great- but neither offered the job and they now have a third teacher coming to deliver a lesson. This is not an uncommon occurrence.

Tbh a student, even an A Level student, is not necessarily a perfect judge of a good teacher based on one lesson. Besides, things may have come up in the actual interview which made it very clear that neither of the teachers was suitable. Also, does he actually know that neither was offered the job? Maybe they turned the job down.

The thing is, to do 7/8 of 960 involves a number of skills:

• Knowing what the denominator of a fraction means (number of parts)
• Using this (applying previous learning from fractions of a shape) to know that 960 must be divided by 8
• Either recognising 96 as a multiple of 8 and knowing how to apply that knowledge to 96 x 10 or
• Being able to use an efficient method to divide 960 by 8 directly
• Knowing what the numerator of a fraction means.
• Applying this to know that the answer of 120 must be multiplied by 7
• Either using 12x7, then x10 or an efficient written method to multiply by 7

None of these individual skills is beyond a Y4 working at the expected level. However - in a world where you can get a 3 in foundation level GCSE Maths using only Maths from the primary curriculum - is it sensible to choose to assess a Y4 on their ability to combine this knowledge in this particular way? Or would it be more sensible, and better for their Maths long term, to really teach and probe each skill individually to ensure that every step is properly secure, embedded, revisited, ready to be built on through the next 7 years of mandatory Maths teaching?

We do pupils no favours by rushing through the basics. Probe children on their ability to identify unit and proper fractions. Teach them tables until they have full automaticity. Recognise factors and multiples, until fluency is reached. Rehearse how to apply them to multiply and divide multiples of 10, 100, 1000 - not just once, but again and again until they can see that calculation in any context and be able to do it. Teach unit fractions as division with small numbers until the equivalence of fractions and devision is as clear as the equivalent between ‘add’ and the symbol ‘+’. Rehearse 2 step calculations, in any order, mentally and in written form.

Once a child has all those skills at their fingertips, then combining them
in any way is easy. Building tottering multi-step towers on shaky foundations is a waste of time and effort, long term.

I’m not pretending to understand the details of recruiting teaching staff but my point was more general- you read on here every week how no teachers at all are applying for jobs but this doesn’t seem to reflect how things are where we live- I appreciate it may be different in other areas. And no, my 17 year old Son may not be best placed to ‘judge’ a teacher but he is academically very able and can tell which teachers are there in body only! If he feels inspired and engaged by a teacher they are doing a lot right imo.

My daughter taught for 10 years and the changes from her starting to when she left 18 months ago is phenomenal. I'm not surprised people are coming out of teaching she was out at 6.00 a.m and lucky to be home for 6 p.m then prepping for the next day and marking, etc OFSTED and bad management is putting loads off scrap that and a.few might betemptedback. She's so glad she left at least now she hasn't to pay through the nose gorgeous holidays.

My son chosen triple science and in year 10, 80% of his chemistry lessons were from a supply teacher who put on a PowerPoint and left them to get on with it. He has really struggled with this subject as a result and is revising like mad to hopefully scrape a 4.

Also, my son has a maths teacher recruited from an African country. A lovely gentleman but I struggled to understand him at parents evening and my son says he struggles to understand him in lessons.

As a retired History teacher (I realised what carnage Gove et al would do to the profession, and retired early more than a decade ago), can I point out that History teachers, like virtually all teachers, have long been used to teaching outside their specialism to help complete the timetable. During my 32 years teaching I taught (apart from History), Geography, RE/RS, General Studies, Citizenship and Critical Thinking. But I spent my University years taking two degrees in History, and more time than I can count reading and studying History since.... not those other subjects. Now whilst I always did my best, believe me you'd want your son/daughter to be taught History by me rather than, say, RE/RS where I don't even have an O Level in it.

Hmm, still going on about how teachers from abroad are going to save the situation? Yet you failed to answer my questions on your previous post re: the family friend who could come to England to teach, in spite of finding teaching 'dull' (sounds a great boost to recruitment.). I'm surprised you couldn't think of a reply, considering how you keep repeating how they'll make a positive difference.

'It would help with cultural differences and racism and make a positive difference to education' - this is a sweeping statement, so could you explain more about how this will happen?

Because OUbis voluntary and secondary/primary education is mandatory. Plus OU hours far less than hours needed in schools.

Try teaching kids on line that are hard to engage in the classroom. Plus the lack of social contact was making kids regress in all other kinds of learning such as social wellbeing and interaction skills. Had huge repercussions for mental and physical health.

My children were state school educated, as was I, in very good state schools, with excellent discipline and results.

My question is this: why do public schools have excellent a ademic, discipline and polite children compared to state schools because it can’t just be about money.

I’m up to my eyes to be honest and haven’t been able to keep up with this thread.
But the negativity at a possible solution is being shut down without an alternative solution being given is simply lazy.

The family friend I referred to earlier did not come to the UK. She left to teach in a sunny climate because that is where she wanted to live. She certainly doesn’t have a vocation to teach, does anyone?

There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords.

The schoolmarmish replies and tone of some posters on this thread say a lot
about the poster’s personalities and of the teaching being conducted in the classrooms.

I'm a secondary teacher of 38 years.
The facts as I see them:

• the salary for experienced teachers is abysmal:
• most secondaries are now run by academy chains and insist on pushing a heavily biased gender/race and eco agenda that you have no choice but to teach;
• kids are totally uncontrollable and, if you as much as put your hands out in defence, you are held at fault - management are petrified of parents and the impact they could have on the school's reputation;
• the workload is ridiculous. On arriving, you run ragged all day with minimal breaks.

Try teaching kids on line that are hard to engage in the classroom

What would the difference be for the kids who don’t engage, disrupt classrooms, and skip school?

So - 2 people applied who they thought good enough to interview. Once interviewed, they weren’t (your son’s assessment doesn’t show the whole picture) and now they are trying a single 3rd person who they didn’t deem good enough the first time? Sounds great. When I started teaching it was usual to have at least half a dozen people at interview for a post.

There are behaviour issues in every school including private schools.
What do they do differently that means disruptive kids don’t take over the classroom.

Can this be implemented in state schools?

There are so many threads on this website with posts from UK teachers saying they entered teaching for the holidays and family life it affords

Really? It's not very family friendly at all - you can't do drop offs or pick ups, you can't see assembly or prize giving or the nativity, you never get to go to the nice day time events...

Holidays, sure, as long as you teach in the same LA - but no cheap breaks away ever.

''She certainly doesn’t have a vocation to teach, does anyone?''

I pity the students who this woman teaches.

YES, there are gifted and passionate teachers out there, and they are respected and liked by their students.

Half~ arsed teachers like the one who finds teaching dull will never inspire anyone.

They are no more than 'babysitters'.

It’s not about the money so much as the working conditions. I left teaching after 30 years as I was sick of the violence and nothing being done to protect staff or other children.
This was a primary school in a middle class area.

Nail on the head. Absolutely pointless wasting everyone's time trying to teach pupils more advanced areas of Maths when they've not mastered the basics, and yet that's what the current system does by pushing pupils year on year into ever harder stuff.

Like trying to teach Shakespeare to a pupil who can't read nor write.

There are lots of different independent schools but on the whole they have much higher staff to pupil ratios and have selected a specific type of pupil. One that fits the curriculumn on offer well.

They arent also universally polite! The 'high jinx' from the big boarding school in my area are pretty awful.