England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Fascinating how on a forum which was so anti remote/online teaching during covid lockdowns, it's now being held up as some sort of panacea for all education's current ills.

Or, find one eighth of 96 by dividing by 8 and then multiply by 7 and then by 10.
Whichever, think of all the previous skills involved in that calculation. For kids who probably haven't fully mastered finding quarters of shapes, let alone quantities. Or knowing their tables at all, let alone the 7s. And all those who haven't yet understood the link between 960 and 96.

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying "Rising Stars" is a maths scheme used by many schools.

Couldn't agree more, @DriftingDora .

Any 'Teacher' like @Icehockeyflowers knows who finds teaching ''Dull'' is probably a lousy teacher.

The best teachers are passionate and inspire their students.

But this is the real reason teachers are leaving.. ^^

''Teachers are leaving because of a multitude of other reasons - ineffective management, poor or non-existent levels of classroom support, the never-ending form filling and tick-boxing, disengaged and disrespectful students (and often parents), being expected to fulfil the classroom roles of administrator, police officer, social worker and - occasionally - teacher.''

A bored 'teacher' from overseas who finds teaching 'dull' would be hopeless , and utterly out of their depth here.

I also suspect that what people mean is that they want children in school to do this online learning - still requiring a full school of adults to do all the ‘difficult bits’ of teaching (behaviour management; discipline; adaptation; SEN; engagement; monitoring attendance; reporting progress; social work; safeguarding; contact with parents and other agencies) but without the only part of the job that really makes teaching worthwhile - teaching.

Good luck with recruiting the staff for that…..

You made that more complicated than it is. Children should know their times tables by then. The sum is just two calculations.

Divide 960 by 8.
Multiply 120 by 7.

Fractions are taught from Year 1. They used pizzas back in my day.

Another point that sort of needs making in this thread, is that a lot of posters are talking about 'but those children have SEND' in response to some of the behaviours that are being mentioned. Things like throwing stuff, biting, spitting, hitting, not being toilet trained and so on. It seems the case that if a child has 'SEND', then that'll mean their challenges won't be an issue for teachers or other children in the class.

'SEND' doesn't mean anything practically in a lot of cases. Just because a child is on the SEND register doesn't mean they have any specific extra support. It might be mentioned on an IEP, but there won't be staff to cover this support, or funding to pay for this support. Even if it is stated in an EHCP, a child will be lucky to get everything they need. Not because a school doesn't want to provide it, but because they just can't afford to, or just can't resource it. Recruiting suitably qualified and experienced support staff for children with more extreme behaviour needs, is very difficult/impossible. Recruiting suitably qualified and experienced support staff for children with specific learning needs is also very difficult/impossible.

As mentioned a lot further up the thread, TAs are being used as cover for teachers a lot of the time. These TAs may have been recruited as 'proper' support staff - 1-1 for a child with specific needs for example - but now is required as a 'bum on a seat' at the front of a class. There isn't anyone to just step in and cover that 1-1, so a child is missing out. Even if their EHCP says they need that support. What is a head teacher supposed to do at 7.30am when they just don't have enough staff and are already themselves covering a class for the day?

The SEND system in the UK is absolutely broken, particularly in England. From identification of need at pre-school age, right through to young offenders in 'prison'. The SEND label means little in terms of real support.

I would absolutely love to be a maths teacher, but the drop in salary by two thirds makes it a no go.
Having worked in a super competitive corporation for 20 years and still with a smile on my face I reckon I could handle it…. ha ha ha maybe not, covid nightmares urghhhh

I'm only surprised you weren't asked to make a personal visit to each of their homes to find out why they hadn't booked.

Thank you so much for that. I assumed it was. I have been researching it for DD9 for secondary. Glad it's proving successful for your DC. I might attend an open event for lower secondary when it comes up.

Worked in FE and HE and it’d take a lot to get me back into a classroom. Just because it’s not compulsory doesn’t make it any better.

At an FE college years ago, there was a wonderful Mathematics Tutor, Dr. C
He said some of the students knew about fractions from weed/drug deals.

1/6, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and 1.

Also betting odds. 7/1 100/1

He also said how it was common for students to ''fear'' maths, to find it off-putting after negative experiences in schools, and yet they needed a basic maths qualification {GCSE pass C or above back then} to do their chosen courses.

Times Tables used to be taught by rote- A teacher in 1970's said ''Learning multiplication tables will one day be a thing of the past as everyone will have a calculator.''

He is right- but the basic understanding of how numbers ''work'' is lacking in some. {Me included as an adult}

The maths fraction given above...I wondered why they had chosen 960 , it seemed an random number

But knock the zero off and it's 96 which 12 x 8 =120

Maths is definitely best taught young, while the brain is like a sponge.

Oh right. I still don’t find the sum especially surprising for 8-year-olds. They must be expected to have learnt their times tables by then, aren’t they?

Managing behaviour is an integral part of this role which requires you to be self-assured with the ability to deal with sometimes challenging situations.

That wording is on a current job advert for a TA in a secondary school - £22k. It means 'you'll be verbally abused at a minimum, and probably physically abused as well'.

Sorry, not completely relevant to the OP, but same vibe.

A shambles indeed.

As a middle manager (head of subject) a disproportionate amount of my time was taken up by mediating between classroom teachers who felt they had been undermined (and they usually had been) and SLT. Even as recently as 5/6 years ago, if a teacher said “out” then that pupil was removed by SLT and the reasons and what had led to that was discussed after the lesson. We had a robust system of consequences and so if you had reached the point of needing to be removed from the lesson then you had pushed it way too far.
Now, in the same school, we have the same system but pupils are often brought back in to lesson ten mins later after a “restorative” conversation with the member of SLT. So not even with the teacher who felt the child needed removing. This makes you looks so stupid in front of the class and often makes behaviour worse for the rest of the lesson because all the pupils are talking about it. Previously, when a pupil was removed, they wouldn’t discuss it in case they were next!

Examples when staff have been furious at being undermined and pupils have been sent back to class that I can think of from the past couple of years:
a pupil punched a hole in the wall and told a member of staff to go herself because she asked him to get a pen out of his bag.

a pupil physically blocked a member of staff from being able to move from behind her desk

a pupil was rude and swore at a member of staff after repeatedly saying everything was pointless (even for answering the register).

I could go on unfortunately

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying
"Expectation" rarely equates with reality in your average classroom. Mr

I find this conversation fascinating. I used to volunteer in a year 4 maths class. It was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life as i found the answer so obvious and could never think of another way to demonstrate or explain it.

8 year olds vary a lot. A mainstream class has a wide range of pupils in it some with SEN, some below average, some average and some above average.

There were several children in that class that genuinley were getting their head around 1 more and 1 less still.

''Self assured with ability to deal with sometimes challenging situations'' =
You will be subjected to assault and battery , and won't be given protective clothing.

A lovely woman I knew was a teaching assistant in a junior school in a UK country.

She loved children, and was very good and patient.

However, she was assaulted numerous times by very strong and aggressive children, especially boys.

One assault led to her being sent to hospital, and her leaving.

For £22k a year?

What masochist would do that??

If it was just helping calm children with their reading, or maths, or helping generally around the classroom, then yes, not so bad, but being a wrangler for seriously disturbed children- That's way too low a salary.

It must be a cause of low level stress constantly wondering when child/ren might kick off and start hurling chairs or running across tables.

Yet Dr. C said that ''Anyone'' can be taught maths to pass GCSE at 'C' and above {Those were the grades back then}.
He had students who passed while unable to speak or write {they had ''scribes''- people to write for them}

Gifted teachers find a way to help children {or adults} understand basic maths.

Occasionally there was a student who was so mathematically adept that they couldn't find problems ''hard enough'' for them.

This student went to Cambridge.

A Physics boffin used to say that he couldn't understand how people couldn't ''get maths''- I wonder if it's early teaching at fault, or else natural ability that's lacking?

People aren't ashamed to say ''I'm hopeless at maths'', but no one says ''I'm hopeless at English'' as it isn't considered acceptable to be bad at English.

Yes my daughter moves up to year 7 in September. They are offering her 17 subjects as well as more outside activities and get togethers. Definitely attend the open event. Good luck to you and your DD.

Agree with this!

I used to think that being a primary school teacher was a doddle, until I helped out in my son's classroom.

35 kids all wanting the toilet at the same time, needing a pencil sharpened, shouting "Miss, miss, miss" over and over to look at their lovely straight margins, crawling under desks to find a crayon and getting their fingers trodden on . . . etc . . . I went home with my head ringing!

What do you mean they are turning teachers away? Teachers don’t randomly turn up at schools to look for work - they respond to advertisements and apply accordingly.

Do parents actually want this for their own children or is it more than people see it as a solution to solve the teacher crisis but they mean other people's children?

I can see it working for bright motivated children but what about everyone else?

We all have calculators in our pockets, so why do kids need to learn this?

It's 840 btw: 12 x 8 = 96, 12 x 7 = 84. But I had to stop and think hard about it.

Also, this forum software sucks because it won't let me use asterisk to mean multiply like I would in programming.

Having a basic understanding about how numbers work is essential.
I used to think the same about calculators- They are easy and make one's brain turn to fudge.

When one comes to do Chemistry, Physics , even Biology, a working knowledge of basic maths is required.

Hence maths tutors always say ''Show your working''.