England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

The Equality Act 2010 states that schools must not discriminate against or disadvantage disabled children or those with special educational needs. A delay in achieving continence - or not being toilet trained - is considered a disability.

I think you are crediting this government with forward planning? That would be an error.

Teachers don't generally last a decade and are needed now.

The government itself knows there is a massive issue and has been for some time, but the Treasury is the issue in that it refuses to forward plan and refuses to fund public services. That's why the country is in such a mess.

The Department for Education have been panicking and throwing money at the problem for some time in the ways that they are able - teaching bursaries and retention payments. You can now get £30k tax free to train as a maths, chemistry or computing teacher which is way more than you'll earn when you actually start teaching. They're now offering bonuses and relocation payments for teachers from abroad and the salary requirements for immigrants won't count for teachers.

However, the DfE doesn't decide school funding, and it doesn't decide teacher pay. It has been begging the Treasury for more funding for years.

Because for almost all of its online life, the Open University has been:

a) teaching people who have been raised in an education system which has valued discipline and taught them, as children to discipline themselves enough to put in the work even when they'd rather have been out enjoying themselves - to defer the gratification of having a good time, in order to achieve something.

b) teaching people who have chosen to enrol with them, and have often been paying for their course (not always, I know, but often). Paying is a huge thing - you might be happy to waste the governments money, but you don't want to waste your own. And choosing a course of education when you are ready and want to do it (whether for interest or for a better standard of living) makes a big difference, too,

Edit for spelling. I've probably missed others - please forgive me.

So these are kids with SEND, despite what PP said?

That is shameful!

It really is letting down the children.

Unfortunately science teachers are like hen's teeth nowadays. Most teachers are qualifying in "soft" subjects.

I assumed that "properly disciplined" meant that the teachers could if necessary exclude a child from class, and that that child's parents would back the teacher up and point out to them the importance of education and good behaviour.

Discipline and good behaviour start in the home. Schools can't miraculously teach a child who has never heard the word "No", or whose parents won't allow anyone else to criticise their child.

If children are properly raised "hitting" to control them would never be necessary.

Almost 20 years ago we stopped being allowed to say children had to be potty trained before starting school in case the issue was some kind of disability or send. It could be that the child is going through a send assessment or it could be an undiagnosed cause but we were no longer allowed to expect toilet trained children.

Not necessarily. But they could be, so you can't discriminate as they could be just beginning to raise red flags and need assessment.

And therein lies your problem.
Parents genuinely believe teaching involves no skill and in the same breath criticise a teacher for having no skill/intellect.
I had to explain the Christian trinity in a way that 7 year olds understood whilst respecting children of 4 different faiths in my class on Friday. Are you genuinely saying teaching hard concepts in a way that is understandable and appropriate does not involve my intellect?!
FFS
How about the multi agency meetings I co-chair to support my pupils in getting EHCPs? And the meetings I set up with social workers and GPs and then police? Do you genuinely think I could do any of this with "no intellect".

The fees for one year of an OU course are more than the per pupil funding for most primary schools so it wouldnt save money for primary schools. The OU fees are around average secondary funding.
The OU course I did (short course) still had lots of tutor feedback and a residential so Im not sure the teachers could have massive classes to create economies of scale if they are giving the response needed to progress.

Im actually a fan of online education but i think people underestimate how expensive it is to deliver online learning properly.

noble
Re recruitment from abroad: our school cleaner is a maths and physics teacher in his country of origin, and he says he'd hands down rather clean schools than teach in one in the UK. He helped out at a STEM event at his daughter's school and was really concerned at the lack of resources and impossible expectations of teachers.

A friend has returned to the UK after some years living abroad. His wife is a maths teacher who bravely accepted employment at a local secondary school in September. She's leaving at Easter saying she's covering lots of non-specialist classes and is drowning under the workload.

Good for them.

It's a mess.

I assumed that "properly disciplined" meant that the teachers could if necessary exclude a child from class, and that that child's parents would back the teacher up and point out to them the importance of education and good behaviour

I taught in London schools ( 7) from 1978-2005 and no teacher ever had the authority to exclude a child from that class. It was referred to YLC or SLT depending.

OTOH I must be the last teacher in living memory who experienced being told to fuck off by a pupil followed by a full expulsion. Them not me . 1981 since you asked.

Does excluded here mean “sent out” or “permanently barred from the class”?

Surely children were sent out of classes between 1978 and 2005?

I can see that complete and permanent denial of a class would require senior agreement, but I would hope a teacher is authorised to control who’s in their classroom at any particular time.

This is the problem, so many good teachers looking for an 'out'. And knowing how governments work, they'll be replaced with stop-gap, 'this won't work' solutions, ill-planned, ill-thought out and above all - cheap.

Most people who are involved in education and really think about things have seen this coming for years, and it well pre-dates covid, although that didn't help matters. But as usual with crisis management (the only kind of management the government ever follow) it's been ignored. It's like the Post Office/Horizon debacle - always refuse to accept blame, always blame the person at the end (i.e. the teacher, here they go, complaining again). The truth hurts so it's easier to look the other way - and heaven knows the government have been 'looking the other way' for years and ignoring the flashing lights.

Absolutely not, in my last teaching post you had to use the computer system to alert SLT if a student was misbehaving. SLT should then in theory come and relocate the pupil. However often no one came, when they did they would ask what the issue is and make their own decision about if the pupil needs to go or not. Often completely undermining the teacher. Many times I was arguing with SLT that my standards of expected behaviour must be higher than theirs.

Management needs to be prevented from chasing out good experienced teachers, to replace them with ECT/NQTs that they then over work and burn out,

That’s tragic 😞 So sorry that happened to you and you didn’t feel you could say anything at the time.

Its insane. It’s because it doesn’t ’sound like’ a violent job I think that people would think being a pregnant teacher or TA would be fine. You wouldn’t have the same opinion maybe of someone working in a prison or being in the police while heavily pregnant but they are possibly even being assaulted less at this point!

Yeah, and then the 10 minutes entering the thing on the computer on crap IT systems.

Whilst the idiot carries on being an arse and the rest of the class sit and wait patiently.

Thank you.

I almost wish I hadn’t asked now. What a shambles.

No. The teacher never had control over being sent out of the class in the sense of being excused for the next lesson (s) permanently, As an emergency, and for that lesson, yes.

A member of my family has lived abroad for many years teaching in a school where English is not the first language. She loves the holidays but finds teaching dull. I've seen her planning her classes and she does seem to put effort into it. The draw is it was easy work to pick up and it enables her to work in the country she chose to live in. Other nationalities could come here, do a conversion course or similar and do the same.

I don't understand your logic. For one thing, you say she 'finds teaching dull'. Doesn't seem like a plus point to me, but perhaps there's something missing from your post.

With respect, I also think you're completely missing the point. Teachers are not leaving because they find teaching 'dull' or just don't like teaching - that's not the problem here. Teachers are leaving because of a multitude of other reasons - ineffective management, poor or non-existent levels of classroom support, the never-ending form filling and tick-boxing, disengaged and disrespectful students (and often parents), being expected to fulfil the classroom roles of administrator, police officer, social worker and - occasionally - teacher. Please explain to me how the member of your family - or anyone else from abroad - will find it easier to cope? I would have thought the direct opposite would be the case.

One example this week we had parents evening. It fell to me to call the 8 parents who hadn't bothered to book a time slot up ahead of time to offer slots. Which took 30 mins. In the past, they'd just have missed the parents meetings, now it's MY job to sort it?!

X 1000

Re: fractions. The curriculum states that Yr 3 and 4 children should be taught to find non-unit fractions of amounts.
(Rising Stars) test question (Yr 4): Find 7/8 of 960.
I wonder what proportion of adults would be able to answer that, let alone in timed test conditions. But 8 year-olds are expected to.

I'm hopeless at maths, but I'd do 960 divided by 8 = 120
120 x 7 = 840

Probably wrong!

At the risk of being told I’m horribly out of touch, I can’t see why an 8-year-old shouldn’t be given that sum, especially a ‘rising star’. I appreciate that some will struggle, but it’s really only division and multiplication.