Do you believe those who are religious

[Toobluntt]

have lower intelligence, in general because they believe in a God, than non believers/non religious people?

I ask because I saw a comment as such on another thread in AIBU, and it's something I've heard/read before, that some people (obviously non-believers) question the intelligence of those who believe in God, or follow an organised religion.

I am not saying this is what I believe, I'm just genuinely interested to know if this is a commonly held view, or not, and if so, why you think this way.

Yes I believe that those who are religious, generally speaking are of lower intelligence and/or educational attainment.
Isn't it bordering on axiomatic?

I think this is nice. I am an atheist from a Jewish family, but while living abroad I used to go and sit in a cathedral sometimes and light a candle as it was so peaceful. I was still as atheist as ever, but it was nice to have some quiet time in a beautiful building.

So, this is a good example of where i’m at the opposite point of view as an atheist, and I think it also depends on what we count as ‘intelligence’.

I think it’s obviously possible for a person to be very academically capable, for example, their brain may be very good at maths, which enables them to gain high qualifications and an excellent salary.

However, to me, as someone who believes god to be a fictional character, if you tell me that a fictional character will help you in times of need, that’s where my issue is.

If you’re actually telling me that you think a fictional character will directly take an action to help you, rather than the context of ‘i use my love of a fictional character to help my brain experience some escapism’ in the same way i like Harry Potter, then i’m sorry to say I wouldn’t trust your judgement generally.

No, I don't believe religious people are less intelligent at all. I was born into a cult and people were often incredibly educated prior to conversions and after too with a large number who did further studies once members

I wasn't denied an education either being born into it

Education status really played no part because conversions were emotionally driven from what I observed

Indoctrination is easy on kids - it's honestly everyone else who didn't believe who seemed the stupider and far less intelligent folk to me through my eyes as a kid. My teachers were just sadly ignorant, I pitied those who didn't believe 😅

But clever people if they have emotional spiritual experiences just find a way to make everything make sense... I no longer believe but it's very easy for my mind to come up with elaborate explanations for why X actually refers to X and pull out other scriptures to back up my points bc that's pretty much what everyone does...

If something seems illogical or outlandish, emotionally driven people make it make sense and become master apologists

Fundamentalist cult for context ... pretty much what you imagine happening in America only (but wasn't)

I think sometimes religious people can overthink things and hyperfocus on texts and search for meaning and connection where there is none.

I think that depends on your ability to differentiate between wisdom and consensus, to discern the village idiot from the guy speaking truth to a village full of them.

I've known a number of highly intelligent people become involved in cults and given everything up to worship and work for, to me obvious charlatans, they seem to be quite susceptible to them .
Also there's perhaps a bit of a class system involved with certain Christian movements too, I've often thought that Jehovah's witnesses initially seemed to be from an artisanal working class background, not unintelligent or stupid but certainly not questioning or critical thinking in their belief. Perhaps a need for certainty underpins a lot of faith.

OP You say "I misquote in an effort to change the context of the original statement, questions, and post in it's entirety." I have not misquoted you. I have directly quoted the question to which your post sought an answer.
You are seeking understanding of why people might or might not think people of religion are less intelligent than non religious. Thus, you go on to say "I'm just genuinely interested to know if this..." ( Ie the belief that religious people are less intelligent than non religious people) is a "commonly held view, or not, and if so, why you think this way" Yet, when I write that it is in fact not my view, and when I demonstrate why I think that way, you tell me don't understand the question. When other posters say they do or do not agree with the statement, you do not take issue. I wonder what it is about my answer that appears to be so aggravating for you.

My neighbours are both scientists - a chemist and physicist in their days jobs. All of their free time is taken up by their commitment to an evangelical church. I find the two incongruent, but they certainly aren’t unintelligent.

I always found religion in the teaching staffroom interesting. Often the most religious groups were the scientists. I found this strange as there is a belief that science has seemingly debunked religion. The faculty most likely to be atheist were the English department. After much discussion on this, we thought it might be to do with our ability to deconstruct the narrative of texts. When you look at something such as the Bible through narrative lenses, you begin to unravel the ‘how’ and ‘why’s’ certain ideas were written. Factor in recurring motifs and imagery, inconsistencies, narrative gaps and impossibilities, it all becomes a fiction. Many religions hang on the legitimacy of their holy book for their authority. If that can be pulled part, what else remains? Blind faith?

TBH all the regular church goers I know are well educated professionals (mostly retired now) - lawyers, doctors, accountants, social workers etc.

I am not religious, but have no truck with people who sneer at those who have a faith. I despise bigots whether they are atheist or religious.

I did not say the majority of responses took offence at your question. I said the majority seemed to understand the question in broad terms of a discussion around the issue. You seem to allow them that luxury. It is obvious to me that if someone explains what they think about a the idea of intelligence vs religion, they are at the same time explaining why they think that way, the thing that you said you were curious about.
You claim I am offended and that it clouds my judgement. You claim too, that I can't work out it was you who are the OP. Let me reassure you none of these are the case. You imply I am using my qualifications as a defence, that I am wrong, that I didn"t read or understand your post. You insult my comprehension skills and say that I am stubbornly defending a mistake. None of these things are true, all.are pretty offensive. All I have done is politely and carefully explain and defend a logical position about which I am well informed and deeply interested. All.of my posts are based directly on the question you asked. Perhaps if you re-read what I wrote, without being combative, you will see this. Best wishes.

OP - It is by now an established fact and not opinion that intelligence is inversely correlated with religious faith. Countless scientific studies some of which are linked here have shown this to be the case. You might as well have asked "Are you aware that religious people are on average less intelligent than non-believers?" and imagine how popular your OP would be then.

Here is a meta-study of 63 scientific studies:

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious behavior. For college students and the general population, means of weighted and unweighted correlations between intelligence and the strength of religious beliefs ranged from -.20 to -.25 (mean r = -.24). Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.

This is obviously not true for every individual, and it is not meant to be. "My neighbor's cousin is an astrophysicist and goes to church" is a pathetic retort to a peer-reviewed meta-study.

It is also not surprising that your poll shows a majority denying this strong negative correlation. By definition, more than half of everyone you meet will have an average or below-average IQ, and most of them will NOT think that they have a below-average IQ. Mean and median IQ is only 100 and 85 (barely above the point of mental retardation) is just 1 standard deviation away. A lot of things about the society we live in make sense after a cursory examination of the IQ bell curve.

Two things from my point of view as a Christian:

I have questioned my faith more than once, possibly even regularly. I think that's part of being an adult with faith. Like testing a boat still looks safe before setting out in it. I consider opposing views and, so far, have concluded I prefer the way of viewing life that I find in Jesus' teachings and in the Bible. There may be unquestioning believers, but it may be a misconception that most don't think critically about their faith.

Secondly, there's a verse in the Bible about God choosing the weak. The God described in the Bible has a particular love for the poor, the vulnerable, the mistreated. I think that could go for the people who have less intelligence too, why not? Anyway, certainly don't find the question itself insulting!

Personally, I studied maths at Oxford but I don't think of myself as particularly intelligent. I think I have a low emotional intelligence!

Original theorist of Big Bang, Belgian physicist and Roman Catholic priest Georges Lemaître: “It took 10^-36 seconds.”

Speed of light: “I can only do 670,616,629 mph though.”

Conclusion: Low IQ vicar, obvs.

Axiomatic or not, it’s strongly borne out by a large number of studies.

Some of the most intelligent people who ever lived were religious.Scientists included.

This sums it up perfectly!

It is by now an established fact and not opinion that intelligence is inversely correlated with religious faith. Countless scientific studies some of which are linked here have shown this to be the case. You might as well have asked "Are you aware that religious people are on average less intelligent than non-believers?"

Yes, ON AVERAGE religious people are less intelligent than nonbelievers. That has been studied extensively and seems pretty uncontroversial. That doesn't mean every single religious person is less intelligent than a non believer but on average they are.

Of course not but OP asked the question “in general” they didn’t ask is it possible for a religious person to also be highly intelligent.

I don't dispute the findings of such studies. I do, however think that IQ is a narrow categorisation/measure of intelligence, and I would call into question the degree to which such studies really address the question at hand. There is a danger that the so called 'scientific consensus' on a inverse correlation between religious belief/practices, is mistaken as a sort of secular gospel. For some, this sort of study becomes the only truth, tools of science are not infallible and they can be incomplete. They are provisional, and any decent scientific study is fully aware of this; they are not designed to provide absolutes; IQ measures one sort of intelligence. It is worth nothing that IQ is a relatively recent concept (early 20th century). The measure of intelligence using this system is, it's self, subject to controversy and review, internally and otherwise. Here, they are testing for a relationship between belief and IQ, which is only one measure of intelligence. It asks is high IQ (what they deem intelligence) compatible with religious faith. I could set up a study to measure religious intelligence for the sake of argument. I will call my measure RI. My test will very likely conclude the opposite the IQ test. ie that there is an inverse correlation between being an atheist and being unintelligent by measure on my RI scale. By virtue of which, all self proclaimed atheists/non believers might be deemed less intelligent, the scientific community would then be perfectly justified in objecting to my terms of analysis, because they do not rate my system, or value my RI as an absolute measure of intelligence. It is like saying because you are X and because we believe X is Y, then you are Y. In my first post on here, I pointed out that the debate on how intelligence and religious faith were related is unhelpfully framed in an oppositional framework. I have no doubt there are links and patterns of social/economic/psychological tendencies distributed across what might broadly be characterised as the religious /non religious population. There are also studies showing IQ distribution patterns across race and gender..These tell us something, but they also illuminate the limitations of the terms of any study. It is important to consider why the IQ measure is so often championed in popular debate as an absolute. It does tell us something, yes, but it is not conclusive. Intelligence and faith are complex and are not static entities. People question their own faith, they may change their views on atheism across a lifetime. How would a single point study reliably account for these discrepancies? IQ assessment is a wildly crude tool, if used in isolation, for the purposes of this debate.

No, people compartmentalise. We all have areas we are unable to view objectively for various reasons.

It's clear to me that religion is something that humans have 'created' in order to foster shared identities and social control, as well as answer philosophical and scientific questions before we had better ways of doing that.

It definitely scratches an itch that humans have for some reason.

I go to church and am intelligent, as are many of my fellow church members.

However I do find some aspects may appeal to the more easily led. My dad would have called "mass hysteria" such as some of the healing churches where people get whipped up into a frenzy. It's not for me but it doesn't mean they're stupid.

I’ve noticed there can be a correlation between wealth and religion too…..I’ve often wondered about that myself. Is it just the network? People you feel you can trust? 🤔so you use them for services/hire them?

"people compartmentalise. We all have areas we are unable to view objectively for various reasons."

Not all of us.