Is there a computer processing disorder?

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Sorry for the funny title, I was not sure how to explain what I meant.
My DH is in his sixties, working and uses computers. He has used computers for about 15 years at work, but has always really struggled. He completed and passed the old EU driving licence for computers, and has had lots of formal and informal computer training at work. But he still struggles.

He seems to be fine if he just has to do the same thing on the computer all the time. So at the moment he sends and answers emails at work and completes a database of jobs allocated and completed with comments. But as soon as there any changes, however slight, he panics and it takes ages for him to learn and retain how to do the changes. He writes down detailed instructions when he is taught about any changes, but still struggles.

He is an intelligent person in every other area of his life. So I wondered if there is any kind of processing disorder like dyscalculia, but related to computers?
I am asking because I struggle to understand why he struggles so much. Sometimes when he is wfh and is struggling with something he will ask me for help, and it is always something I can just work out by trying out what to do. He does not seem to have the ability to do this on computers.
Anyone know why this would be when he is not like this in any other part if his life?

My mid 50's husband is similar. Although he has used computers at work for 30 years it is not the main part of his job. We think that he is dyspraxic which tends to mean some difficulties with executive function as well as co-ordination and gross motor skills.

I find this super interesting, this is my dad. Worked apparently successfully with some quite technical computer engineering software for years but really struggles with home tech.
I am still requested to help "fix" something usually relating to an email programme or similar. Which usually involves me taking a look, and using (in my view) common sense to figure out how to do what he wants doing.
I think rather than looking at the screen and thinking "well I want to do X, probably I should press this button" and having confidence that the developer has produced a programme that will reasonably have a logic to the user, on reflection I think my Dad wants to know what will happen before he presses the button. Like he wants to know all the different steps to know how to do X, before he starts. Rather than just having a go and trial and error, which I think is how most people get X done the first time around.

Agree

I was working in childcare in 2008 and not only were there no IT systems at work, many staff had no personal email either. I helped my colleague set up an email address and Facebook account in this year. Prior to that she had never used a computer. I’m

It seem hard to believe now but the current widespread use of tech is really very recent.

It is striking how much computers favour a certain learning style: a learning style which is almost playful and exploratory rather than tied to a set of formal instructions.
The easiest way to get the hang of a new program is just to start doing. That is in such sharp contrast to how we learnt things before computers. In those days it was all about the instruction manual.

Some people thrive on 'learning by doing' and had a hard time in the era of the instruction manual. Others prefer to absorb the rules and then put them into practice. Their era is gone and now they are the ones that struggle!

A lot of people just don't get technology. And people of his age did not grow up with computers, they don't have the intuitive 'language' I guess.

My mum is the same. She would panic if handed a new computer or upgraded OS and told to figure it out. If faced with a new interface, I'd look for a menu. If nothing actually says menu, I'd look for 3 dots or 3 lines or hit the home button and see what happens. Mum would panic. She wouldn't know what to look for and wouldn't make the association.

That's interesting to know, and not what I expected.

Also what @GoodOldEmmaNess said about different learning styles makes a lot of sense.

Mine is very similar. He can barely work a smartphone and is completely hopeless with computers, especially anything with computers that is more than basic email and googling. He even struggles with email if he has to do something like attach a file. Yet he’s very intelligent. He has some kind of extreme lack of aptitude for anything related to computers. I think this has led to fear and aversion, making the whole issue worse.

@GoodOldEmmaNess very interesting point of view about learning via exploring. This sounds very correct to me. The people who are good at computers are those who don’t read the manual or documentation. It’s being not afraid to try and see what happens. You only google if it doesn’t work and specifically on how to solve an issue. If you need to read a manual or take a course to learn to use a program the program is too hard to use.

I don’t think it’s true that computers suit playful styles of learning. Many autistic people really enjoy working with computers because they are predictable. I think computer programming is best suited to people who are methodical and logical and enjoy paying attention to small details.

I also think it’s highly unlikely that there is a computer specific learning disability. People who grow up with computers will all learn to use them. It’s probably being expected to learn a new skill in adulthood that is the issue. It can very hard to learn to dance or to drive after a certain age. I think this is probably what is happening here.

Computers have been mainstream the 80s and the internet since the mid 90s. Anyone who has chosen not to keep up with the changes is doing so deliberately. It’s not exactly brain surgery since search engines and windows etc came in.

@AQuantityOfNaughtyCats that is the timeline I tried to get across I tried to get across. My parents had computers with word processors and spreadsheets in the 80s. I went to university in 93 and I had dial up. I had a PC at home and university had a lab of computers. I remembered the computer science department had zip discs and we had floppy discs in engineering. When I graduated, all the offices had computers and we had internet from our work computers in the office.

I wouldn’t say computers are more widespread now. I would imagine if you don’t have an office job, you only have access to a phone. Why would you buy a laptop to use at home? Unless you do your accounts on it? But wouldn’t you have done the same in the 90s?

But PP were disputing that computers were widespread for 30 years now.

This is my DM. Will read her emails off her iPad, and FaceTime relatives, might at a push open an attachment, but online banking, WhatsApp and texts are beyond her. Interestingly, she said she learned to read quite late and has always been bad at spelling (which used to be a big thing in 1940s primary schooling), and has always wondered if she was a high functioning dyslexic, as dyslexia is at bottom a problem with linguistic code sequencing.

Alternatively, differences in the processing of visual-spatial information could account for problems in navigating home screens. If you’re used to working your way through lists, i.e. just one ‘branch’ or ‘twig’ of tasks, the home screen with its manifold apps and menus and options is basically a jungle.

Finally, sometimes the problems are physical. We take being able to type (albeit with one finger/two thumbs a lot of the time) for granted; my DM’s generation saw typing as a specialist skill, and never learned the QWERTY keyboard. DM has arthritic hands. And touchscreens really do not work very well with elderly fingers - something to do with dryness and electrical skin conductivity, it’s a ‘thing’. So TL;DR, some people, especially the elderly, find it more hassle than it’s worth getting online.

Teenagers can’t type either! Have a DC at secondary and she said she is one of the few that can do it. I made her do dance mat typing. It’s not taught at school and it’s expected that parents fill in the gap. DC says there are many slow one finger typists.

I have this. I'm fine if I am just doing the same thing all the time but I cannot remember new things for absolutely ages. People will show me new things but they might as well not have because I can't remember anything about it the next time.

In the job I had 15 years ago, I still had to save a piece of work on a floppy disk and hand it to the colleague who had the internet, so she could email it to the client.

This is such a wonderful insight, and captures to a T what happens when I watch how my DM uses computers vs how I use computers. I am constantly saying to her, "just have a go, press the button and see what happens!" But her thought process is "what if I break it, and it's broken forever" and that leads to paralysis...

They were not mainstream in the eighties. The eighties is when there was a big push to have ONE BBC computer in every secondary school. University essays were still handwritten.
It is like saying virtual reality is mainstream in 2024. Most people have heard of virtual reality, some people have used it, but loads of people have never used it.

That's really interesting. I think you might be onto something, that there's a SpLD - like dyslexia - which is caused by a weakness in some underlying processing skill, which makes it much harder for some people to use computers. And it hasn't been figured out yet, since widespread use of computers is really very recent.

It would be really interesting for some affected people to have a full test of underlying cognitive skills - but that's expensive. Any researchers around interested in doing a study??

Agree that using computers favours a playful approach to learning - but it does need to be intentful. Have you ever tried to help someone on a computer and they start clicking stuff randomly? So stressful!! Because actually, doing random shit on a computer does make things go badly wrong (looking at you DNieces: how do you get soooooo much malware?)

Intuitively, I wonder whether it might be to do with the underlying ability to do part-whole manipulation. When I think about how I use a computer (and what seems to be missing in people who can't) it's about holding the high level intention in my mind, whilst also being able to manipulate different small detailed actions and see how they dynamically affect the whole.

How is your DH at understanding how abstract things fit together, OP? I believe the same underlying processing skill is also used for understanding links between unrelated concepts: how is he at that?

I also think it’s highly unlikely that there is a computer specific learning disability. People who grow up with computers will all learn to use them. It’s probably being expected to learn a new skill in adulthood that is the issue. It can very hard to learn to dance or to drive after a certain age. I think this is probably what is happening here.

Learning to drive, learning to read and write, and learning to use computers have a lot in common, though. Cars, writing, and modern computer interfaces are all technologies which have been developed over time towards a form which the majority of human beings can learn to use, provided they have something approximating the typical set of abilities. Whichever one of those technologies you look at, you'll find that smooth operation relies on several complex brain processes working together in particular ways.

It's just a bit shit if you happen to be slightly outside the average in some area or other that's necessary for learning/using whichever technologies your society has decided are desperately important.

I also don't think there is some 'as yet undiscovered' special disorder that we can use to medicalise some people's aversion to using software!

My mum is in her 70s and will not (not cannot) do anything more than send emails. She has decided that anything else is simply too difficult.

Once something has been put in the 'too hard' basket all attempts to teach an old dog new tricks will fall on deaf ears - that's the same for almost everybody with any subject you could name. We joke about mathsphobes (algebra anyone?) but really it's just that we decided it was too hard so we resisted learning.

So no, I don't think there is a disorder that we haven't labelled yet.

Really interesting observations here.

On the 80s 90s thing… my school had computers and I did my GCSE in CompSci in 1988. (Totally outdated now but I got a basic idea of hardware, software etc). But in Uni the computer lab was always over used and I hand wrote my essays til 1994. In work, it was a highly computerised job (insurance/ call centre) but we didn’t get email til the year 2000. There’s a quote somewhere (Warhol?) that the future “will not be evenly distributed.” Basically there’s a huge spread of experience.

i think the pp who have mentioned learning styles are spot on. My Dad who is now 95 has always been technical (he was an engineer) and has always loved gadgets and has had a PC for a long time. I was quite impressed with him 10/15 years ago for being a “silver surfer.” But I bought him an iPad during lockdown so we could FaceTime each other and he just could not get on with it. He’s used to a PC and uses Linux (and has even taken apart old PCs to physically put more memory in) but cannot get on with touch screens at all. Even when he has a go at jabbing the icons, he’s flummoxed by the apparently random way in which screens pop up and cover the last one - if he opens a web page or email for example, he can’t figure out how to get back to the Home Screen. I think he prefers a more “physical” style where he always knows “where he is” and something more “intuitive” just throws him completely.

It’s a bit sad. I know there might be cognitive decline at his age too but he’s always been the one in the house who does all the technical stuff as my Mum just can’t. I think she really does have something like dyspraxia as she is clumsy, can’t figure out how things work, and has always been afraid of tech, from the ancient video recorder to the microwave. She’d be lost without my Dad. She’s a huge reader, not dyslexic, but clumsy as they come. Interesting.

I think this is me and a lot of what has been said resonates. In fact, I have often described myself as computer dyslexic, considering I am not in other areas.

My adult son is ND and its not out of the realms of possibility that I am too. Its not that I'm not clever in other areas but I do have a very "hands on" people oriented job.

But, I run my own business and have had to do training that involves using computers and I can certainly learn what I need to do and enjoy using phones (and laptops to a lesser degree) for communication, reading and fun, in fact I use my phone for most things, including my many lists.

But, I am no good at figuring things out for myself with any tecnology and frequently get frustrated and have to ask for help. If things go wrong I am unable to figure it out and I hate getting any new technology.

I think there is something in the thought someone said about me not knowing or understanding how it works underneath. But, I know I also have a lot of resistance to it all.

I also have similar reaction to admin. Again, not putting myself down, as I am not stupid by any means but I struggle with admin. Although I work better with order and lists, I do err on the more creative, arts side than mathematical.

Have you ever tried to help someone on a computer and they start clicking stuff randomly? So stressful!! Because actually, doing random shit on a computer does make things go badly wrong (looking at you DNieces: how do you get soooooo much malware?)

A family member decided to 'tidy up' her PC by deleting a load of system files because she didn't use them! 😁

I am afraid that this really isn't accurate.

I was at university in the mid-nineties and we had computer rooms where there were PCs to use. You could use email to contact friends at other universities, but that was about it. Also all of this was completely optional - you could handwrite essays and pass an entire degree without ever needing to touch a computer. To be frank, in that era it was still assumed that a successful person would have a secretary and that, particularly for women, it was better not to learn how to type! Very rarely did a student have their own PC or laptop. I had the 'World Wide Web' demonstrated to me as part of a computing module that I took - I remember that we were shown the website for the US White House. It was a dark-screen, text-only website.

I began my first job in 1996 and, although I had a PC on my desk, email was not generally used. Some PCs were connected to each other for file sharing, but there wasn't a network. Everything was done via phone, fax, memo and letter. About a year later an extra PC was installed in the corner of my office and connected to a modem so that we could go on it periodically and download emails. I did not routinely use email for work purposes until my second job and even then it was mostly internal emails.

In primary schools, the big drive to get teachers using PCs only began in 2000 and, even where computers were provided in a classroom, they were often standalone PCs and not connected to a network. The classroom where I did my second teaching practice only had a blackboard. New teachers were coming in with IT skills by 2000 but for those who were, for example, already ten years into their career, it was a huge shift as they had gone through the education system without previously needing to acquire IT skills. I was young and fairly tech literate myself, but I remember other colleagues expressing discomfort about how things were changing. In 2009 I remember asking the local authority IT technician to connect the last few standalone classroom PCs to the network...

No one should be smug about this - we are all only as technologically successful as our knowledge of the current system that is in vogue.

It wasn’t used in any office l worked in. People still used a word processor.

I was teaching from 97. No computers there. Register was done on a computerised book thing from about 2003. No emails though. Computers for staff started about 2006