Selling Nazi artefacts

[greencurtainshanging]

I was in an antique shop last week and was surprised to spot a cabinet full of Nazi artefacts for sale. There were original armbands, some swastika cufflinks, Reich coins and original amateur photos of Hitler as well as a Nazi officer uniform.

I actually (mistakenly) thought it was illegal to sell Nazi memorabilia but apparently it's not. It's really bothered me though and while I think it's important to preserve these things so that future generations can learn, I hate the idea that someone is trading in this stuff and potentially selling it to neo Nazis. I think these items belong in a museum or an archive but they should not be up for sale.

But it got me thinking, should the trade of some things like this be regulated/banned?

I have family in Germany and it is illegal there not here though.

I will try and locate it. It's somewhere in the loft. Obviously we don't use it!

My father was a German PoW and has an iron cross with a swastika on it. It's just history. He was relieved to be captured and stayed in the UK afterwards. I can't comprehend what he must have gone through at age 19.

I hope OP you did not buy anything from the antique dealer. I would boycott such a place.

Yes. Entirely possible. I mean people brought guns back!

"crab-eating Nazis" is possibly the best line I've read on Mumsnet. I love it. Not sure how I can use it in general conversation but I want to. Could make a great cartoon too.

No issue with nazi stuff myself. As a kid in the 80's there were Iron Crosses in most junk shops (around £20 from memory). People were calmly rational and viewed all this stuff in the context of trinkets, memorabilia, souvenirs, artefacts, collectables etc. the war was over, we had won, and the bloke next door had brought it home...yeah, you might be offended by a kid walking around with a swastika armband (Siouxie Sioux for example).

Joins patient queue for the solid silver swastika 🦀 fork.

I used to work in an estate agents and once we had a listing where the old gentleman who owned the house had a collection of nazi memorabilia. They kept saying they would remove it before the listing went live but they never did and we ended up having to blur it out of the photos (thankfully it was contained to one large display cabinet) and then warn people about it when they booked viewings - everyone was fine about it.

Thing is, the gentleman who had it served in Germany in WW2 and at the time bought a few pieces home, an armband and a medal I think. It was considered a prize. Then he kept adding to the collection over the years. He wasn’t a nazi or anything but did take pride in it. What freaked me out was that the armband was worn by a Nazi soldier who did god knows what, the medal was given for who knows what. It could have belonged to a conscripted man who really didn’t have a choice but to serve in the German army but it equally could have belonged to a higher up member of the nazi party or a camp guard. I didn’t like the not knowing part.

I don’t think it was uncommon to bring ‘souveniers’ back from WW2. I imagine there’s more than a few Nazi daggers still in attics round the country.
I’m glad to see the Ted references in the thread.

I know a couple of people who own Nazi items. Nothing remotely neo- nazi about them either. They have them out of fascination and an overall lifelong interest in WW2. If someone decorated their house in swastikas I can see how that would be offensive, but I don’t think owning one or two artefacts kept in a drawer is an issue.

My brother is a well established stamp dealer and has a collection of nazi stamps from when Germany invaded Jersey during the war. He keeps them in a drawer and says he won’t put them up for auction/sale as they are too contentious. (They came in a probate lot). Weird to look at!!

It's illegal in Germany as they don't want Neonazis to glorify these artefacts. Even if you visit places like the Eagle's Nest which was a holiday retreat for Hitler, there aren't any Nazi symbols.
There's currently a play at the Young Vic which I'm tempted to see. It's about a family finding Nazi art in the attic and them being conflicted about whether to profit from it or hide it.
It's called Nachtland.

I imagine that's a fairly common scenario as the boomers grow older that there are lofts with 'stuff dad brought back from the war'. And what do you do with it? If it's an important family artefact you can't bin it, so that's why things end up in antique shops. I don't love the idea and would never buy anything, but I can see how it happens.

Similarly I have a book published in 1938 celebrating 100 years of German Railways. The endsheets have a German eagle/swastika design and it has a picture of Hitler in it. But it's a book about railways. I bought it (cheaply) at a preserved railway bookstall who were clearly slightly embarrassed about it.

This, but also we still have my deceased DF (used) bayonet - no different really.

Australia made it illegal fairly recently. And I think in France it is either illegal or very restricted. I remember there was a legal case about it in the late 90s maybe, around online sales. ebay don't allow it at all. Austria bans it too

It is very jarring to see real Swastikas and medals up close. It's that direct link back to the horrors that were perpetrated by the regime.

Also waiting for picture of crab fork. 😂

My grandfather was a Naval officer during the war and he had a German revolver that he had won in a game of cards in Singapore on VE Day (family lore was always a bit fuzzy on whether he won it from an actual German or whether it was third/fourth-hand).

We used to play with it as kids (it was, of course, not loaded).

I think it was turned over to the police when my grandmother died and my mother and uncle were clearing their house.

No issue with this. Owning this stuff doesn’t mean you’re a Nazi.

I have no issue with people actually owning these things or inheriting them from family collections etc - it's an important part of history.
I think for me, it's more to do with the casual sale and trade of them.

I was thinking that the armband and cuff links in the shop could have been worn by someone who committed horrific crimes. I don't know why anyone would want to buy things like that? I mean if you were trying to buy 'artefacts' from other crime scenes, you'd be considered to be a ghoul. That's different from inheriting something or finding a crab fork in your garden ;)

Oh in the same collection was some kind of torture weapon. It was a spiked metal ball on a chain attached to a stick. Goodness knows what sort of deaths and horror that weapon inflicted.

@HobnobsChoice

And I think in France it is either illegal or very restricted.

Not sure of the exact wording of the law(s) here in France but yes, selling of Nazi branded items is restricted to the point of being pretty much impossible to do.

You won't see high street shops selling the stuff and even the auction houses have run into problems with some of their sales in the past.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210111-french-auctioneers-pull-nazi-memorabilia-from-sale

My ex from over 30 years ago his dad had a big collection of German war medals from World War 1 and 2. He was an avid collector and his heart lay with the British medals, he spend years collecting and sourcing them, going to collectors fairs and his most treasured possession was a Victoria Cross.

When he finished collecting all the medals he had nothing to do so collected the German medals. Given he served in the war he wasnt a Nazi but an obsessive collector.

Could be how some people get German collections, collect all the British items then move onto Italian/Spanish/German medals, arms bands, dinner plates etc.

I have no issue with people actually owning these things or inheriting them from family collections etc - it's an important part of history.
I think for me, it's more to do with the casual sale and trade of them.

The problem for me is where does it end? I mean... Volkswagon has done pretty well considering it was Hitler's brainchild (with Ferdinand Porsche).

And Hugo Boss...

The problem for me is where does it end? I mean... Volkswagon has done pretty well considering it was Hitler's brainchild (with Ferdinand Porsche).

There's a long list of Companies that are associated with the Nazis, including many household names that used forced labour such as Audi, BASF, Bayer, BMW etc.