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Saying Goodbye

55 replies

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2024 07:38

Sorry this is so long. If it doesn’t interest you, I completely understand. Please ignore.

Hi all. Two days ago, I discovered I was a topic of discussion on another site. What was said was pretty brutal - that everything I’ve ever said about myself on MN has been a lie, that my writing is shit (possibly true), my photographs are shit (that’s a fair one), that I use the word “sigh” too much (also completely fair), that I’m overly verbose and unintelligible (this is probably true, too), and that I reference my dying all the time (completely fair and true).

The things that are true hurt, but I probably needed to hear them. Doing something that a lot of people hate me for is a stupid way to spend the time I have left. And I don’t want to be remembered as an overly dramatic writer and shit photographer, though unfortunately, I’m sure I’ve shown myself to be both. I will never be able to convince everyone on the internet that I’m not lying, but since there’s literally no point in not being honest with not that much time left, I figured I might as well try to fix this.

So, before I go (it’s definitely not a flounce because I believe MN has the ability to help a lot of people, especially women who are trapped, and mostly I don’t want to leave having made it a worse place) here are honest answers to several questions you might have:

Who are you?
I’m Toria. I live in Switzerland. I have a C permit (permanent resident) so I will be able to stay here until I die. I was worried about being outed because my bosses didn’t know yet that my serious illness had become terminal. They have now been informed of my health, since it’s worsening, I’m working in a contingency plan, so there’s nothing more to hide. My family are all dead (raised by my grandparents, no siblings - my biological mother does text but it’s awkward and we haven’t spoken in a decade, my biological father is dead), and I have maybe five really good friends in America, one in Monaco, and one in Scotland. I started as 5YearsLeft in December 2021 when my doctors (rheumatologist and neurologist) both agreed it was unlikely I’d survive another five years and they had no other ideas. By math, we’d be down to three years. By health… I doubt we have two years. I’m too weak to handle this much pain without seriously considered euthanasia.

What are you ACTUALLY sick with?
I said this was outing before because my doctors say it is. I have full-body myasthenia gravis and Behçet’s disease - neither of them are usually fatal anymore, but no one has them together. I usually just said vasculitis as Behcet’s is a form of vasculitis (your body attacks your veins). Neither of these are assumptions - they have been confirmed by either blood tests, biopsies, and in the case of myasthenia, also electromyography. There are only four reported cases that my medical team has been able to find - three of them are dead, and one was treated with a huge dose of steroids which they already tried on me and made things so much worse, by giving me Cushing’s syndrome and adrenal failure. ONE REQUEST: If you know ANYONE who has both of these diseases, full-body myasthenia gravis and full-body Behçet’s disease (both have just ocular versions) please, please send me a PM. My conditions are both refractory (no treatment has worked) but maybe there’s someone we just haven’t been able to find who’s found something.* *I won’t be active on Mumsnet but if you PM me, I will get a notification.

Why the fuck do you keep trying to go to Scotland if you’re “so” sick?
Two reasons. Where I live in Switzerland used to be fine in the summer. Now, it’s never-ending heatwaves. My veins do not react well to this, and I spend all summer hidden in a single dark room with a room air conditioner. It is an incredibly isolating, depressing thing. So going to Scotland means at least I can sit and be able to see out a window and talk to someone every day and drink tea. Second reason, my best friend lives there and that’s who I stay with. Without him, I would already have done doctor-assisted suicide. My ex-husband hounds me about it every week. It feels sometimes like my best friend (and my friends in America, but they’re so far) are the only ones who care that I’m still here. But no, it’s not the vacation that you think, and I know I’m a complete fool who is risking a myasthenic crisis or higher chance of DVT by doing it. I take an Uber to the airport. I cannot lift my own luggage at all. As soon as I get there, I have to be put in a wheelchair, which is where I stay until I’m seated in the aircraft. Then at the other end, same wheelchairs again, my best friend picks me up and puts me in an Uber, and I sleep for a week to recover from the journey. But I’m just as sick in Scotland. I stayed for three months, and I never left the apartment, so that ought to give you an idea. My options: dark room in Switzerland, alone, or try to push to Scotland, and at least have someone who loves me, even if I’m still housebound.

What about when you tried to prove you weren’t a troll by sharing your medications? There was x/y/z wrong with that.
My list of medications is practically public knowledge and I don’t really care anymore so here’s what I take: Euthyrox (for the thyroid issues from one of the past treatments), Esomep (to protect my stomach from all other meds), 2 hydrocortisone 2x(a small dose for the adrenal failure), Topamax 2x(migraines), Sertraline (I’m depressed, who the fuck wouldn’t be about dying), Mestinon 5x(60mg for myasthenia - you cannot take this without having myasthenia, because my understanding is that works exactly the same as Novichok, except obviously so, so, SO MUCH weaker), Celebrex (for the Behçet’s joint pain), Fentanyl (for the full body pain from Behçet’s, including some anklyosing spondylitis it’s caused). I also inject subcutaneous immunoglobulin, 10g, every five days, and Humira, 40ml, once a week. I know someone asked how you can take that much fentanyl without being catatonic. I don’t know what to say? My hair used to be red and brown, now it’s brown-black and silver, but I’ve always needed 3x the maximum numbing at the dentist. We’re currently switching from fentanyl to morphine, because while morphine is supposed to be significantly “weaker,” it works a ton better for the Behçet’s pain, especially since it’s now in all my major joints which are all going bad now.

Why the hell did you keep calling your ex-husband your “husband” for so long?
That’s embarrassing but a fair question. He divorced me to marry my mate so that she could get a residency card. He promised he wouldn’t treat me differently. And I wanted to believe him because dying divorced and alone, living in the same house with people who wouldn’t notice that I died, was more than I could take. But it doesn’t matter what I wanted. The truth is: my former husband divorced me and married my mate before I died, and he became an ex-husband, and he started making noises about how if he were me, he would already have committed assisted suicide, and I was an absolute fucking idiot for thinking it would be any different.

So why are you bothering to do this now?
Because it really disturbed me that there’s a large group of women who won’t believe anything any future dying MNer writes because they thought I was a bunch of trolls and also that every time there was a nice comment about me, that I wrote it myself. I mean, Pamela (wilsonmilson) has an obituary that’s still online and has a public funeral and they still didn’t believe her.

What do trolls get out of it?
I know there is categorically no way to convince some people that I’m not troll. What I would say is this: I don’t know how trolls do it. I would feel sick every day if I knew I was lying in such a way. And I know this is pathetic, but I would also be a bit scared. That kind of shit has a terrible habit of coming back to bite you in the ass; it’s not exactly karma, but it’s the universe balancing something. I’m ALREADY afraid the shit things I’ve done in this life will bite me in the ass, and none of them are as bad as that. And I don’t see the “benefit” to being a troll. No one has ever offered me money, which I take as a great sign that MN opening statement about not giving anyone your time or money is working. And I reiterate that here: do not EVER give any money to anyone. People should not be asking for anything and they should refuse if you try to give it.

If you want to ask a question, please post it.

If you need to say something to me, or you want to say something positive, or you want my Instagram (as I said, I’m mostly housebound and in pain, so it’ll be boring and may occasionally contain shitty, dramatic, depressed writing), please PM me. Any positive comments would just be viewed as me posting them to myself, so it would be better to keep them off the thread.

So thank you for everything! I learned some very important lessons from this. And I wish you all the very best of luck, with whatever comes next for you. Thanks for listening to a rambling, dying idiot. I really appreciated it.

OP posts:
RightOnTheEdge · 11/03/2024 16:07

I hadn't seen your name until you replied on the small life thread and it was such a thoughtful and kind reply to the OP.

I think it's absolutely terrible that grown women would behave like that. It's like schoolyard bullies and I'm sorry they've been so awful to you OP.
They are really not worth worrying about, although I know that is easier said than doneFlowers

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2024 16:32

@ScouseOfCards Thanks. If anyone did remember that I was ever on Mumsnet, I hope it would be because I said something helpful or kind when they needed it. Just something small.

@OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon Ah, people keep referencing Line of Duty, but I don’t remember it very well. I say that because my granddad said it. Ha.

@NotestoSelf @RightOnTheEdge Thanks to the both of you. I think so many women come on here and just need people to really read their OP and subsequent posts and offer them compassion. Everyone needs compassion sometimes.

OP posts:
delphi13 · 11/03/2024 16:47

I've seen you reply to others and thought how lovely you seemed and with great insight (for obvious reasons) to what people with terminal diagnosis's feel or need to hear. I find it staggering that some people have taken against you and then started vicious conversations on another forum about you. I cannot understand what is wrong with people.

I hope this tiny minority of vile people won't put you off from sharing on here. Your posts are valuable and so are you.

WavyLines11 · 11/03/2024 17:07

I've followed your posts before five and have never for one second thought you are a troll.

I'm so sorry for the shitty people discussing you Flowers

Ticktockontheclock · 11/03/2024 17:23

I am also not familiar with your username but on here as in real life you see the best and worst of human nature.
I tend to leave a reply and move swiftly on, l try to offer advice, what others make of that is of no interest to me. I don't care if they disagree, l don't need to be right, l speak from my own experiences, my intention is to be helpful.
You are the light for many people in similar circumstances, and for those fortunate enough not to be in those circumstances you are living proof the human spirit is stronger than anything life can throw at it. What an amazing woman you are. Still trying to help others whilst having to deal with what your dealing with.

5YearsLeft · 11/03/2024 18:23

Thanks for all your advice. I deeply appreciate it. And @gamerchick you’ve given me spot on advice twice and I really appreciate it. I need to develop a thicker skin. And @Ticktockontheclock I should absolutely have done what you do. My mistake was talking about myself so much - it was stupid and self-centred and gained me a shitload of unwanted attention. I should have just never started any threads, only replied to people, moved on, and it would have been a lot better. But I’m really glad to know that according to almost everyone, I’ve made a bigger impact on people questioning me and hating a lot of things about me off the site than I ever did on the site. This is probably a natural place for the thread to end. Like I said if anyone has any actual questions, please ask and I’ll reply, even regarding parts of my story you didn’t “believe” (no one is going to attack anyone and you’re not attacking me by questioning me), and please, like I said, if you know anyone with both myasthenia and Behçet’s disease, please message me. At this point, I have no pride about it.

OP posts:
Luna42 · 11/03/2024 20:16

Stay!! We need the people like you that make sense. And I believe you.

brytersky · 11/03/2024 21:48

Think about it this way, your supportive responses to people having a difficult time vs some deranged vicious trolls pulling people they don't even know apart. I know which one I'd rather be 🤷🏻‍♀️

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 11/03/2024 21:55

I know you've not posted for advice, but I've travelled to Berlin from Scotland on the train in 3 days. Switzerland is obviously further but there are night trains. Would that be less risky than flying?

Sorry to intrude.

DrunkenElephant · 11/03/2024 21:56

I know you, but only because of a lovely message you left for another poster recently who was struggling. It will stay with me for a long time.

I am very sorry you’ve been made to feel shit by a bunch of horrible dickheads on the internet, but most of us are nice and we would like you to stay 😊

MGandOthers · 11/03/2024 22:32

Name changed for this in case I am recognisable.

I have read your story since you joined. Firstly, I have not and would not discuss your life on other forums but I have to admit, I am surprised by your prognosis. Myasthenia Gravis is rarely fatal these days thanks to ever improving treatments. If you did go into crisis, they can intubate you and people do recover. It’s awful to go through but it’s survivable.

I completely understand you have a second rare autoimmune disease but so do many of us. In fact, I have an unheard of combination of 3! I am not unique in this, I am always coming across people with their own unique combinations of autoimmune diseases. They (doctors) have told me they don’t know of anyone with my combination but it’s well within their expertise to treat MG and other complex autoimmune diseases. I don’t expect to die from this. I do expect treatment to be slower and a bit more complicated as they all talk to each other - neurology, rheumatology and respiratory. This takes time in the good old NHS.

In all my years of social media and MG, I’ve never come across someone dying of their autoimmune related issues. I’m on lots of sites including ones that are world wide. Infections and cancers are sadly common. I’ve never come across anyone being given a prognosis of 5 years and I’ve seen people who have a long term tracheostomy and tube fed and NIV etc. I’ve had far too many hospital admissions for infections directly related to my autoimmune disease treatment and some hairy moments in intensive care with sepsis, my breathing and just overall really unstable health. Despite this, I don’t expect to die young nor be given a terminal diagnosis. I don’t expect I’ll make it to 100 years old but I’d like to make it well into my 70s!

Based on my experience (and it’s only my experience), I am surprised to hear you’d be given a 5 year prognosis. If you said you had organ failure, it would be understandable. That said, you do not owe anyone a detailed explanation of your health and life. I do not disbelieve your health nor that you’ve been told this. I think it’s sad if you really have been told you’ll die based on a doctor not knowing. Life with chronic diseases can be unbearably hard but it’s horrible if you’ve had the hope taken away from you.

5YearsLeft · 12/03/2024 00:01

MGandOthers · 11/03/2024 22:32

Name changed for this in case I am recognisable.

I have read your story since you joined. Firstly, I have not and would not discuss your life on other forums but I have to admit, I am surprised by your prognosis. Myasthenia Gravis is rarely fatal these days thanks to ever improving treatments. If you did go into crisis, they can intubate you and people do recover. It’s awful to go through but it’s survivable.

I completely understand you have a second rare autoimmune disease but so do many of us. In fact, I have an unheard of combination of 3! I am not unique in this, I am always coming across people with their own unique combinations of autoimmune diseases. They (doctors) have told me they don’t know of anyone with my combination but it’s well within their expertise to treat MG and other complex autoimmune diseases. I don’t expect to die from this. I do expect treatment to be slower and a bit more complicated as they all talk to each other - neurology, rheumatology and respiratory. This takes time in the good old NHS.

In all my years of social media and MG, I’ve never come across someone dying of their autoimmune related issues. I’m on lots of sites including ones that are world wide. Infections and cancers are sadly common. I’ve never come across anyone being given a prognosis of 5 years and I’ve seen people who have a long term tracheostomy and tube fed and NIV etc. I’ve had far too many hospital admissions for infections directly related to my autoimmune disease treatment and some hairy moments in intensive care with sepsis, my breathing and just overall really unstable health. Despite this, I don’t expect to die young nor be given a terminal diagnosis. I don’t expect I’ll make it to 100 years old but I’d like to make it well into my 70s!

Based on my experience (and it’s only my experience), I am surprised to hear you’d be given a 5 year prognosis. If you said you had organ failure, it would be understandable. That said, you do not owe anyone a detailed explanation of your health and life. I do not disbelieve your health nor that you’ve been told this. I think it’s sad if you really have been told you’ll die based on a doctor not knowing. Life with chronic diseases can be unbearably hard but it’s horrible if you’ve had the hope taken away from you.

I’m sorry you felt you had to name change, though I completely understand not wanting to share your private medical information. I wasn’t going to return to the thread except for a question and this is kind of one.

I think I’ve really badly explained two things here. First of all, something about Behçet’s and myasthenia combined or maybe just vasculitis and myasthenia for me particularly, has led to brain bleeds. When they “guesstimate” that I won’t last that long, it’s on the assumption that either my ability to breathe long term will give out or my brain will keep having micro bleeds until it either has a big one or can’t function. I’m not sure if either of those are exactly “organ failures,” but I’m fairly scared.

They don’t seem to be able to do anything about my head. Because the Behçet’s is attacking all the veins in my body and they haven’t found a medication that will work on me to stop it.

You are absolutely right about there being a lot of mechanical treatments for issues - long term tracheostomy, tube feeding (since the myasthenia is causing trouble with the my swallowing and coughing). The issue is that I don’t want to live like that. If I had children, a family, a home, I’m sure I’d feel very differently. But nobody is expecting me to stick around and there’s nothing really to fight for. I’ve already signed a DNR. The last time I even had surgery, my veins were so bad that they had to place six IVs, sew one into my wrist, and put me in the HDU with a catheter when I woke up. It was just supposed to be a short surgery. So, I’m scared. I don’t want to go through any of that. I’m still pathetic about even getting my arterial blood gases done from my wrist. They did it wrong once and it hurt for weeks, it seemed.

I really, REALLY hope you live to your 70s or even later, if that’s what you wish. But.. I just can’t. My doctors have made it clear that it would just be a life of pain, mechanical anssistance, or endless hospital visits, and my ex, who is my caretaker, would prefer that I had done doctor-assisted suicide already.

God, I’m so sorry this reply to you is so long.

OP posts:
allaloneandlost · 12/03/2024 00:58

I'm very very sorry you're in this position and then even worse to be treated like that. It's kicking somebody when they're down to make themselves feel better, except they don't or they wouldn't behave like this. If people don't believe you then they can just not read and ignore.

I remember seeing you on a long thread but unsure which where you mentioned wanting to live in Scotland. People were kind and supportive, and you've been in return. Please stay for the support and company you clearly deserve.

marmaduke12 · 12/03/2024 05:13

NotestoSelf · 11/03/2024 16:03

I only remember your name because you recently posted thoughtfully on the thread by an OP who was sad she'd unwittingly made choices that had resulted in a 'very small life', and you mentioned your prognosis.

Exactly the same here. You seem so lovely and thoughtful. Just from this post your ex is obviously a dickhead. Can you get around enough to do something awful to him? Sardines in the car and curtains etc?

Collywobblewobbles · 12/03/2024 10:12

marmaduke12 · 12/03/2024 05:13

Exactly the same here. You seem so lovely and thoughtful. Just from this post your ex is obviously a dickhead. Can you get around enough to do something awful to him? Sardines in the car and curtains etc?

I would relish the opportunity to say a few words to ops ex husband and ex friend

pleasecallmeback · 12/03/2024 10:14

I follow you on Instagram and have always found your posts, although sad, inspiring. You are far too lenient on your ex-husband and his new wife though, far too lenient. You need to find your anger and release it.

EdithStourton · 12/03/2024 10:22

Another one who has never heard of you and doesn't think you're a troll. I'm sorry that you're in such a grim situation.

There are some very bitchy people on this forum. There are also those who forget that there are people behind the posts.

MoonWoman69 · 12/03/2024 11:46

I haven't heard of you either hon and I've been a long time on here too.
I am so sorry you are facing what you are. Life can be an absolute bastard. As can a particular group of posters on MN! Some people were born to be nasty, just ignore and move on.
I hope you can make it to Scotland relatively easily and spend time with someone who loves and appreciates you being around.
As for your xH and xBF... Karma will kick hard when it arrives at their door step, I can guarantee that.
Sending you my best wishes and strength for your remaining time with us all here that care. Please stay around if you feel able, I think we'll all see off the nasty posters for you! 🤗💐

catscatscurrantscurrants · 12/03/2024 11:57

I have seen you post a few times, including a very recent one that was thoughtful and compassionate, and remembered your name. I'm sorry for what you are going through - you do not deserve any of it - and I wish you everything good.

Soberfutures · 12/03/2024 12:17

@5YearsLeft I only the other day on a post about people you still think about asked about you as I had not heard from you for a while. Definitely do not think you are a troll. I've admired your posts and love your writing style and that is why you have stuck in my mind.

Glad to hear he is now an ex. If you don't want to post can you please dm your Instagram.

ooooohnoooooo · 12/03/2024 12:44

Hello @5YearsLeft I was on your anazing helpful insomnia thread under a different name.

Just last night me and another MN both mentioned you on another thread. A thread about amazing mumsnetters whom we remember and think about long after their posts. So at least 2 of us think you are fab, funny, inspirational and excellent company.

The politics of social media are shit, dysfunctional and largely dominated by bastards. So, as hard as it is, please don't give them too much credence.

For what it's worth if I were you I'd say goodbye to the mountains and head back to your lovely friend in Scotland. For good.

However long you have left should be with people who love, respect and care for you. And the colder weather will help too.

Fuck what anyone else says. They aren't you. Do what you want and need. The time is now to be as selfish as you want. 🤗🤗

Collywobblewobbles · 12/03/2024 13:02

ooooohnoooooo · 12/03/2024 12:44

Hello @5YearsLeft I was on your anazing helpful insomnia thread under a different name.

Just last night me and another MN both mentioned you on another thread. A thread about amazing mumsnetters whom we remember and think about long after their posts. So at least 2 of us think you are fab, funny, inspirational and excellent company.

The politics of social media are shit, dysfunctional and largely dominated by bastards. So, as hard as it is, please don't give them too much credence.

For what it's worth if I were you I'd say goodbye to the mountains and head back to your lovely friend in Scotland. For good.

However long you have left should be with people who love, respect and care for you. And the colder weather will help too.

Fuck what anyone else says. They aren't you. Do what you want and need. The time is now to be as selfish as you want. 🤗🤗

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

allaloneandlost · 12/03/2024 13:21

I agree.

SpringSprungALeak · 12/03/2024 13:22

@5YearsLeft

stay!!!

I do 'know' your user name on here. I have dreadful brain fog, so sadly don't remember a lot of detail BUT I do know you have serious health issues & very little support.

although my memory is deplorable (these days) I do remember feelings about posters, and my feelings about you, are that you're a lovely person in an absolutely awful situation.

I certainly don't feel like you over post or whatever, nothing negative at all.

Do stay! Don't let the twats on the other sites talking about MN posters stop you, they'd trash Mother Teressa!

SpringSprungALeak · 12/03/2024 13:25

In your situation, I would head to Scotland too, if you are able to live with your friend. Could he come to you to help you go to Scotland?

The only thing that would make me hesitate is the Assisted dying in Switzerland. Sorry to be so blunt x