Which job, academia or NHS?

[NHSorAcademia]

So I’m currently a senior lecturer. I enjoy my job as in the actual work, the students, the flexibility of the job, the lack of micromanaging and being treated like an adult. I’m department head so lots of responsibility but also quite a lot of freedom.

My department is short staffed, this is unlikely to get better as the Higher Education world seems to be hurtling towards a financial crisis. I think my job is very safe unless the university decide to bin my course (unlikely) or go bust (no idea how possible that could be). But workload is only ever going to increase and can be a bit crazy now. But in a way the flexibility makes up for that. I wfh on average 3 days a week.

I’ve been offered an 8b position in the NHS. I’d rather not say the job title but I’m a registered healthcare professional and it’s a senior specialist role. It would be strategic, office based. I could have some patient contact if I wanted with specialist clinics. It’s not managerial, but a lot of leadership of a large department. I think the job has the potential to be interesting but also potentially frustrating. I’ve obviously worked for the nhs before and I’m aware of the barriers you can face when trying to change things. I’m also cautious about the toxic culture of the nhs, the micromanaging, the blame culture, the bullying. There would be no shift work, no ward work but I would have to physically be there 5 days a week. Potentially if there is an adverse event the role could stressful, I imagine there would be a lot of chasing difficult and ever moving targets.

im currently on 50k as not yet on top of the senior lecturer band, i think in a few years time id be on 55k. The nhs job would be about 65k so quite a jump in pay. But we have a comfortable life now so i don’t need the extra money. Pensions, sick pay, leave is comparable for both roles.

I've worked in both types of role. I think they are quite different and it really comes down to your appetite for a new challenge, since you say you don't need the money. Although surely the money would be nice.

I think your pen sketch of the downsides of the nhs job are accurate. Do you get a sense of what the team is like though? There are some wonderful teams in the nhs and working for one of them versus working for a bad one truly can make all the difference.

The lack of flexibility with the nhs one would be a deal breaker for me with the kids, is this an issue?

If you're chomping at the bit for a new direction or challenge and the team itself isn't toxic and you can handle the office hours then I'd go for it. If any of these factors are not there I would stay safe for now. The NHS are desperate for good people at the moment so you could have a similar chance again in future.

Starting Band 8b is just under £59k. You would have to wait 5 years before being on £68k + inflation.

There are no in-between pay scales any longer.

Thanks, so it would be about 10k more. Still not to be sneezed at but the pay isn’t my main priority

How long did you work for the NHS before? Whichever number of years you have worked for the purpose of securing entitlement to holidays will still apply.

So if you worked 5 years, previously, you'll be entitled to 28 days and 33 if you worked more than 10 years.

How many holidays day do you get currently?

@herewegoroundtheblueberrybush the team seem friendly and nice in the nhs department. I’ve worked with them previously and would be happy to work with them again.

i don’t have kids so the lack of flexibility from that pov isn’t an issue. However I have dogs and I like being at home for them, although I could increase the dog walkers days. I like the flexibility of being able to go to the hairdressers “in work time” or a gym class. Currently that’s not an issue as long as I do my work/hours.

if it wasn’t for the short staffing issue in my current job and my concern that this is going to get worse i don’t think I’d be considering leaving.

I worked over 15 years in the nhs. Think my current leave entitlement is actually 40 days plus bank holidays plus the week off between Xmas and new year. So my annual leave is probably quite a bit better at the university.

Yes it does seems so, but it's good to know that if you go for the NHS job, you'd be entitled to 33 days.

Would they count previous service do you know? Even if you’ve had a break? Not sure if the clock is reset.

It's not reset for annual leave. Once you've gained a certain entitlement, you've gained it forever.

That SL band seems very low, I'm sure the top of our SL band is early 60s. Do you get an uplift for managing the department? If not I think they're taking you for granted. I'd be tempted to use the offer to leverage more pay but be prepared to go.

My instinct before I read your banding would have been to say ..stay away from the NHS
But band 8 I don't imagine you'd have the same issues band 5,6,7 staff have with management .

Yeah I think it’s a bit shit to be honest. I get £500 extra for being head of department. It’s not really worth it 🙈😁.

the top of SL band at my uni is 54.5k. So quite a way off early 60s. I did wonder if I might negotiate skipping a few rungs and going to the top but I certainly won’t get more than 54.5k and seeing as the uni are in dire financial straits and doing redundancies I’m not sure I’d even get that.

£500 is awful for all that responsibility!

It really is a bit crap isn’t it? The extra work is immense.

I can see why you're struggling to make a decision. I have two jobs ( an nhs role and an academic one - clinical psychology) and they really both have their pros and cons. I think if I were you I'd find it hard to give up the flexibility of your current role.

My gut instinct is that you should stay in academia. Staffing in the NHS is so bad that in provider trusts, everyone ends up spending half their time doing work two bands lower than their actual job. No matter how strategic the role, you'll be pulled into the operational side.

I think that’s a really good point about the risk of being pulled onto ward work. I’d like to think if I took the job that there’s enough band 7s below me who would get pulled first. But I do have a health condition which means I can’t stand for hours on end. So maybe occy health would say I couldn’t get pulled onto the ward….but there’s a potential risk there.

I'm currently in the NHS and wish I was in academia so I'd vote for staying put.

Some of my colleagues love their jobs on the clinical side. I'm in management and have been a victim of the bullying, toxic culture. As a general rule, everything is bureaucratic, slow and incredibly frustrating. I'm hoping to leave it I can find the right opportunity.

I think this is what my heart is saying.

I would stay put too. I’ve been in the NHS for over 20 years and I’m looking for a way out. Like PP, I have also been a victim of bullying, tried to speak up about it and it all got swept under the carpet. I have no faith in my immediate management or senior management. It’s a toxic place from bottom to top and it’s broken. If you have got out once, I’d stay out!

I would definitely stay in academia. I’m an 8b in the NHS. I’ve regularly experienced problematic behaviours from senior managers. Weird dynamics around male / female relationships between top, mostly male team, and more junior managers. It’s very subtle but there is a constant sense of being undermined in different ways when they’ve decided your face doesn’t fit. It sounds paranoid but that’s how I’ve experienced it. I came in from a local authority, had previously worked in large multinationals, and have never felt such discomfort in an organisation as I do currently. It’s draining and I don’t feel like I can challenge without being targeted for removal, which I can’t afford so I am biding my time waiting for an opportunity elsewhere to come up.

It's very validating to read that others are experiencing the same culture, not that it makes it any better but it's good to know it's a systemic issue and not a weakness in me (despite having been repeatedly told I have the wrong attitude and am too sensitive).

The system is broken and I think people are now turning on each other and taking it out on each other.

I'm also currently working in Psychology, with lovely people (the toxicity was in a different part of the organisation), with a few ex academics and people tend to drift between the two. If it would help with career progression then you could take this and see it as a stepping stone. An ex colleague of mine took an NHS post for a few years and is now back in academia as a professor, for example.

If the people are nice and the culture is ok then it might be alright for a few years. Don't forget it's a General Election year this year and with a change of government, it might give everyone more hope ... here's hoping.

If your uni are struggling and making redundancies is that something you are at risk of?

Not unless they scrap the whole course which I think is unlikely

I'm only at b6 and love my job but I think given the flexibility you have at the moment I would stay put.