I’ve never quite understood the ‘only two children’ population argument

[Lelophants]

Yes I’m aware the world as a whole is overpopulated. That’s not stopping any time soon. The countries with the fastest growing populations and highest populations in general are currently Nigeria, India, Brazil and other parts of Africa. China has an enormous population but fewer children being born to support the elderly so again they are trying to increase youth population by encouraging more babies being born.

The UK has an ageing population and will struggle with supporting them. There is already a care crisis. I don’t personally think we should knock everyone off once they reach a certain age.

Surely you should have one of two arguments? Either:

1. no one should have any more children in the UK. All of our youth should be made up of immigrants from these crazy growing other countries and the world as a whole will slowly reduce in overall population.
2. if we just care about the uk, surely those who want children should be able to have as many as they want, considering there are so many people who are now child free and this is only increasing. So at least we are doing our best to support our own population.

The whole “I’m a wonderful person and care about the environment because I’ve only had two children” annoys me, because if it was all about you caring, then you shouldn’t have any at all! The reality is, you can only afford two or only want two. You haven’t sacrificed an enormous maternal urge because of the environment! Yes you are just replacing yourselves, but on that take, who is replacing all your childfree friends? So I found all those goady people when there are threads about larger families incredibly irritating! And I only have two children before anyone asks. Would love a third though!

Does no one else share this view?

Yes I mean I don’t feel bad about having my third child given the vast majority of my friends don’t and won’t have kids, or have 1 and not having any more.

Evangelicals on any subject always make me stop listening to them though. How can someone be SO sure they’re so correct on any subject, to go preaching to anyone in their presence? Massive red flag.

Also people going on about saving the planet - they mean the human race. The planet is going to be just fine.

The only thing that would happen if the UK stopped having children and immigration is that we will eventually be invaded as we have lots of spaces and resources by a country that doesn't have enough of either.

The thing that needs to be done is to get the worlds population up to a decent education/health level and give everyone a proper chance in life and they will naturally have less kids due to them dying from curable diseases, not forced into marriage early due to poverty, etc, etc.

I honestly don’t think the majority of people consider the country, environment or anything else like that, when deciding how many children to have.

This is what I mean. The argument is so simplified and always a very smug “Well what about the planet.” And “It’s so selfish. I only had two to replace me and DH” despite living a very non-environmentally friendly lifestyle!

if only!

Watch this:

I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday! I totally agree with you but I'm so sleep deprived from my 3rd baby that I couldn't articulate it as well as you.

So are your children going into the caring professions OP? Or are you expecting them to drop everything and look after you if you become infirm? Or is that for other people's children to do whilst your children have other professions that aren't as demanding or low paid?

Part of the answer to solve the caring profession is to make it attractive to males, everyone assumes it will be females who fill those roles.

You talk about breeding like it's a factory. Parts of the world, already hotter climates, will become unliveable in the not too distant, if we can accept managed migration then the excess younger populations from elsewhere can fill workforce gaps in lower growth countries.

We have two and had them because we wanted them both. A third would have finished us off!

They are free to make the most of their own lives whilst we save to provide for ourselves in our later years, should we get there and the need arise.

Perhaps as the crisis continues it’ll become a better paid job and yes, maybe that’s what they’ll do! I don’t know. Will yours? We will always need carers, no matter who it is. I’ve done it before. It’s really not a bad job in itself, just incredibly poorer paid and overworked/not enough resources. Anyway that wasn’t really my point. Even if you forget the specific care needs, you need young people to work to support those who are retired. That’s common sense. We can’t have everyone in a nursing home and no one working.

Well my rule is 2 hands therefore 2 children

I am not bothered how many children others have

I can understand that! 😂

The environment and the economy always butt heads. What is good for one is bad for the other. Having two children is a good compromise - you're supporting the economy without putting too much pressure on the environment.

It would be better if certain religions allowed contraception, wouldn't it? There are millions of women all over the world who would love to limit the number of pregnancies they go through, but are unable to do so.

The whole “I’m a wonderful person and care about the environment because I’ve only had two children” annoys me

Is this a very specific complaint about a particular person OP, or is this a common view that I’ve just never encountered?

DH and I plan to have 3-4 children. We’ve already been told that we’re selfish for this and we haven’t even done it yet, we only have one at the moment. I agree that the replacing yourselves thing makes no sense. The argument I always make it that DH and I have three siblings between us who are likely to remain child free. Does that mean we should have five children to replace them as well and make sure our parents have the right number of grandchildren? That logic is just as stupid as stopping at 2 children so you only replace yourselves. Of course there’s nothing wrong with having two children if that’s what you want. But trying to shame others for having more because it’s bad for the environment is silly. Having any children is bad for the environment.

But they both defeat the purpose of other then don’t they 🤷‍♀️

Precisely. But also thinking about it, any animal breeding is bad for the environment 🤷‍♀️ but who is the environment even for?

Comfort yourselves as you wish.

Beyond 2 kids, everyone suffers.

Folly to deny otherwise.

Why are you boring us with your musings given you have decided to procreate regardless?

I completely agree that these people would always have only had two children regardless of the environment and are trying to retrospectively claim some virtue. I think the same is true of about 99% of people who claim they are child-free because of the environment.

But this makes no sense! 😂 can you explain why you think ‘beyond two’?

Is it boring? I think it’s a pretty interesting topic tbh. Feel free not to respond.

Happy to have an actual discussion about this if those who disagree with me are interested.

'Who is the environment for'? Well not just humans. It's the habitat of every creature on earth, and we are ruining it. Environmental reasons are a big factor in my choice not to have children. I have no issue with immigration.

I’m happy to be bumped off when I get to that needing cared for stage. Also I had four children so environmentally shocking as well as a Labrador. Ni foreign holidays so perhaps it’ll balance out somewhere.