Our education system is an utter shit show

[Noonelikesasloppytrifle]

I don't think people outside of education realise what an utter mess our education system is in and how bad it actually is.

I have 4 DC with one still in primary and the rest at secondary or 6th form. I have worked in various educational settings and have been a Governor. I am currently working in a large secondary ( 1500 students) in a pastoral role having moved from another area of the public sector which is also in a mess. My DC all attended state primaries. Two of them are now privately educated with the other 2 attending state grammars and one moving to a sixth form college.

I have been really shocked by how bad it is in the school I work at. It has clearly been managed badly for a number of years (former head went on long-term sick, followed by maternity, followed by sick leave) so they were rudderless for a while. They have just joined a MAT who all want the same behaviour policies with a blanket discipline regime and no regard to the individual needs of the kids. There are a mix of behavioural problems but they are all lumped together so those kids who have SEMH issues are punished for not attending lessons when the classroom environment is so toxic for them that they can't cope. There is no resource for it to be dealt with in any other way.

The curriculum and assessment schedule has completely disenfranchised a whole raft of kids. At the start of year seven they're already aware that scraping a 4 in most subjects would be their best outcome but they're forced to sit in classes where the only attainment measure is an exam at the end and we wonder why we see so many challenging behaviours in lessons. There are barely any TA's so often 30 students with one teacher and some very difficult kids to deal with.

This week at my school they had so many staff off sick that for three days we had 5 classes put together in the main hall. It was either that or close the school.

The staff all appear to dislike each other. Teachers don't like SLT or pastoral but also exhibit a sense of entitlement. It's certainly not an "we're all in it together" type of attitude.

School are expected to solve all the ills of society. On a daily basis we're dealing with the impact of poor parenting, lack of boundaries, the poor diet and social media etc etc. There is so little resource to deal with this properly

I know that not all schools are like this. My 16 yr old DC (at Grammar) does not report the same issues at their school that I do at mine. However, I do know that our other nearest secondary is experiencing the same thing as us and they have a similar demographic (rural county).

I feel so sad for the kids coming out of this system, particularly those without the network around them to provide support and direction.

My mainstream sons secondary has been a fairly positive experience but I think the biggest issue has been cover lessons really. They have a few types. So there is the teacher who isnt really a science teacher, teaching science. Which has been ok as they are consistent, but an actual science teacher would be better. Then theres just a cover supervisor lesson which is in the class room with relevant work, then theres the several classes in the hall from random year group cover, which is from a booklet. (This isn't punishment)

I think a lot of parents would be surprised about the amount of cover, even in nice schools

And as my username suggests there is a huge problem with our school estates!

I work for an online school and I know that exactly what you mean.
We can't keep up with enrolments because of all the things you mention.

You don't know the difference between NT/ND do you? Or that ND is only one group of children with SEN.

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck
Yes. I do. Please stop being so pedantic and picking my posts apart.

We all know SN, SEND underfunding affects all children in school.

Stop picking. Please. This was a general thread by op.

This. School nurse, school counsellors, teaching assistants? All rare in high schools compared to 15 years ago. Yet sen through the roof.

Teachers.. exhibit a sense of entitlement.
what are they being entitled about by the way? PPA? Not paying for classroom resources out of their own pockets. Work/ life balance? Demanding support for children who should have a 1-to-1 who dont? Supervising 50 children on their ‘lunch break’?

@crumblingschools

"implies that it can't be that big a problem in schools. "

I never said anything of the sort. Stop making such assumptions and misquoting me.

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck
Only 4 children?

Maybe it did maybe it didnt i deal with schools.

My ds is in his gcse year and he's had so many teachers leave in the last year, middle of term time, then cover teachers. Teaching has been inconsistent and the school have paid for online tuition for some kids.

@Oblomov24 how much impact do you think underfunded SEN has on schools?

The one size fits all is due to a severe lack of funding and inadequate alternative provision. The sad fact is that boot camp schools are the only way that teachers in many schools can control a class of 30 when a significant number can't or won't conform and the school system relies on conformity (from parents and students). The answer is a system where alternative schools exist for those who cannot learn in the current system, but this requires far more money than the short sighted government is willing to pay. It's not a closed shop so those who criticise the teachers and school leaders should get on board to fill the dire shortage of school staff

Utter rubbish. The problem is not teachers- many of whom spend hours planning to accommodate individual needs at the expense of other children who then lose out in terms of attention- the issues are :
a) A useless curriculum much of which is utterly pointless and unrelated to what follows. It is often dull, full of useless content and assessed by very complicated assessment systems that assess content knowledge but can only be marked highly if particular writing skills are demonstrated. It is inappropriate for 50% of children at least.
b) Ridiculous assessment systems which benefit no one and are based on children understanding nit just content but meeting complicated criteria for how to answer questions in particular written formats.
c) Ludicrous student targets which only really take into account prior attainment when they are set and progress is measured.
d) Overload of marking and assessment fir teachers.
It's no wonder students are bored and fed up.

Teacher training is often poor quality and universities will let almost anyone pass- giving them so many chances, reducing their timetables significantly, putting in place additional resources and insisting they do actually meet the standards when they don't.

Schools are overwhelmed by poorly parented children and by children who need specialist intervention because of their SEN- and it just is not available. CAMHS, Ed Psych help, SALT suppirt is all in very short supply. The CAMHS team local to us has a waiting list of over 18 months for an initial meeting with a child after referral by a GP.
It is all the fault of this Conservative government. They inherited an Education system that was well-funded, had birth-§8 provision with Surestart put in place, was well-staffed, had a humane, interesting curriculum, much happier teachers, children who could see success and a programme about to start to replace every school in the country - on day one Surestart and the building programme were scrapped, within weeks/months the curriculum had been scrapped and replaced by what we have now, then the SEN provision was changed, then OFSTED was changed. Now we have crumbling schools and provision that is awful.

Yes. Only 4 children. The other 24 all have some sort of trauma or learning need or are young carers.

Last year was 11/33 with no extra needs. Year before about 15/30. Year before that was actually the same class I've got now but I've been moved from ks1 to ks2 because I'm one of the most experienced there and every teacher has struggled with this class. Even so, I'm struggling with no support. No money to do anything. I've had to stop using mini whiteboards already with half the year to go because we have no money to buy the pens. It's a posh area in Surrey but still suffering.

That may be your experience but there’s plenty who would disagree.

Omg yes. It’s bad. It’s so, SO bad. I’m currently looking at selling my home and downsizing so I can take a lower paid job so I don’t have to work in a school anymore. I head up pastoral support but I’m not fixing anything, I’m not having any impact because I have NO resources. I out in referrals for external support that 10 years ago would have yielded some social worker support for family or specialist support for SEND and they just get sent back saying they don’t meet threshold. They do meet threshold but there’s no external resources left so they just get sent back and schools are left to try and plug the gaps in family support/youth offending/drugs counselling/MH support/bereavement counselling etc etc etc. You name it, we’re expected to fix it. With next to no funding.

@LuluBlakey1

That's exactly the situation in my school too. It's heart breaking and no matter how much we work and how much we care we can never ever do enough.

@Jensbiscotti which bits do you disagree with?

I'm a teacher, my DH is a teacher and we have DC in primary and secondary schools so we have a fair view of the system and I agree. It's appalling, the worst it's been in the 20+ years I've been teaching.

I take issue with the idea posted at the beginning that teachers are indoctrinated into a one-size fits all method though. Most teachers I know do their very best to support all the different needs of kids in their classed but it's actually impossible within the curriculum and budgetary restraints.

My order DC has EBSA - she just can't cope in the secondary environment at all, although did manage at primary. Younger DC also looks to be going the same way. I can't blame them. If I could find a way to give up my job and home-school them, I would.

But what about the average ones? Are they not deserving of an opportunity to do well?

I'm support staff in my local secondary, and I agree it is awful out there now, but that is not to say that teachers are not trying their best to make things better with the resources they have. Behaviour is their biggest challenge by far. So many lessons are disrupted by challenging children, and because of this our kids are getting a raw deal. The bright ones don't have opportunities to stretch their knowledge, the quiet ones go under the radar as chaos rules and a lot can't concentrate because of the goings on in class. All in all no one wins and we end up with a cohort of under achievers when they are capable and deserve so much more. Science lesson are a joke in my school - barely any practical activity in the lessons to really engage the kids the subject and help them to understand the topics in depth - mostly because we have so many non specialists teaching sciences who have either, no confidence or traing to deliver the complexities of these lessons and are also put off by the element of danger with so many disruptive kids in the labs. Our kids are really missing out. There are so many global challenges out there that need fixing by well educated scientists and we have little hope of competing with other countries. Parents, I believe, are the best way of changing things because when we all start complaining on mass about the poor level of service that our kids are getting, the school leaders will have to listen. Trust me, they hate complaints - reputation to uphold and all that! We really need to ask our kids about the quality of lessons they are having. I can guarantee that when I ask my son how school is going, he will just say fine. They've become accustomed to their environment, and its just wrong. Please don't take this as teacher bashing, I'm not, I'm married to one and work with many. These academies need to stop creating layer upon layer of expensive management, and pass the cash down to create more TA and teacher positions - smaller manageable class sizes with greater support in them. Schools also shouldn't have to jump through hoops to put out disruptive kids. Sorry for going.

And I don't agree that a bright child will do well anywhere. My dc is struggling with all his subjects because they've had so many missed lessons, kids are not motivated and mess around and he's feeling overwhelmed.
It feels like he's trying to learn most of his syllabus by himself outside school hours. It would, frankly, be easier, if he stopped going to school now and just spent the next couple of months studying at home by himself.

TwylaSands In our school teachers are at a point where they will only teach - all behaviour gets referred to pastoral. They won't help on lunch duties which means pastoral get no lunch but then they have an expectation that we'll be around for their lessons too to deal with the behaviour. I have to make sure I take a 2 litre bottle of water in with me as it's a choice between that or having a wee.

However, I also don't blame the teachers. They have 6 periods a day where it must be incredibly emotionally exhausting. My perception is that they have been put upon so much by SLT that there is no longer a willingness to do anything extra.

Parents, I believe, are the best way of changing things because when we all start complaining on mass about the poor level of service that our kids are getting, the school leaders will have to listen.

I know for a fact that parents are complaining to my school about the lack of suitable teachers for their kids. I also know for a fact that the job adverts are going out and no one is applying. Or we hire someone who applied because they were the only applicant and then parents complain because the person is not a good teacher.

The amount of workload that is created for the remaining teachers by planning for and picking up after cover teachers is immense. The amount of workload created by dealing with parental complaints is also increasing. But it's genuinely something we are trying our best to deal with but is out of our control.

Every email of complaint to a school about inadequate education levels should be forwarded to MPs.

Education has to make its way up the agenda this general election. Politicians think that parents don't care.

They won't help on lunch duties which means pastoral get no lunch but then they have an expectation that we'll be around for their lessons too to deal with the behaviour.

Teachers aren't paid for their lunch break and there should be zero expectation of them 'helping with lunch duties'.

You are also entitled legally to a lunch break (same as teachers) and therefore you should take this up with your managers if you are not getting one.