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Govt planning to screw over teachers again

284 replies

noblegiraffe · 29/02/2024 21:09

The government have recommended to the independent pay review body (late, they missed the deadline) that teacher pay rises should be 'more sustainable' this year. They haven't suggested a figure but looking at budget this would be 1-2% (i.e. another below inflation pay-cut.)

In the meantime, their commitment to reduce teacher working hours by 5 hours per week has been a complete failure as teacher working hours have actually increased in the last year:

"The latest wave of the working lives of teachers and leaders survey shows full-time leaders’ average working week in 2023 was 58.2 hours – over 11 hours a day – up from 57.5 in 2022.
The survey polled more than 10,000 workers, and found full-time teachers’ average hours were 52.4 per week, up from 51.9 in 2022......Teachers and leaders’ job satisfaction has also plummeted. Only 46 per cent were satisfied “most of the time”, compared to 58 per cent last year.

At the same time, the number of teachers quitting is increasing, and recruitment is becoming an even bigger issue due to the lack of people starting a PGCE last September who should now be applying for jobs.

The government gearing up for another war with teachers is clearly something they see as a vote-winner in an election year.

However, many voters are parents and can see the impact of the state of education on their children's experience at school.

NEU and NASUWT are currently consulting members to see if they want another ballot for strike action.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/keegan-calls-for-return-to-more-sustainable-teacher-pay-rises/
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/heads-and-teachers-working-longer-despite-workload-push/

Govt planning to screw over teachers again
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MrsHamlet · 03/03/2024 21:49

God, it's depressing. I feel like we're going to be fighting for the rest of my career.

Sherrystrull · 03/03/2024 21:56

MrsHamlet · 03/03/2024 21:49

God, it's depressing. I feel like we're going to be fighting for the rest of my career.

I know what you mean. Every day feels like a battle anyway!

DdraigGoch · 04/03/2024 05:48

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 01/03/2024 00:23

What else would you suggest?

No teachers for your child? No reports? No logging of behaviour so no noticing of patterns including bullying? No marking so minimal progress for your child? No reports so no updates on your child's progress? No parents evenings? No support for children with additional needs?

No direct contact between parents/teachers except formal meetings so the batshit moaning parents can deal with their own shit rather than projecting their parenting fails onto me? That would be brilliant! And easily shave 5+ hours of my workload a week.

Personally I'd suggest a collective work to rule. I know that your contracts have vague clauses about having to do unpaid overtime as required with no limit specified so I'd refuse to work more than 48hrs in any given week.

DdraigGoch · 04/03/2024 06:02

bradpittsbathwater · 01/03/2024 00:37

Trains will be self driving in the next decade or so. With salaries like that train drivers will be the first jobs to go.

Except for a tiny handful of urban metro systems (such as DLR which still has a member of staff onboard) trains will not be self-driving in the next decade. Or in the next century. Many parts of the UK are still using diesel trains governed by Victorian signalling technology and this won't change for the foreseeable future. There isn't the capital available to invest in mass ETCS installations, nor would there be enough technicians to resignal most of the country in such a tiny space of time. Particularly not when the savings would be tiny in the grand scheme of things.

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 07:05

NASUWT teaching union are currently operating a work-to-rule. Has anyone noticed? Probably not.

The only things a work-to-rule really impacts are clubs and trips, because there's no rule that says we have to do them. But then teachers do them because they like running them.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 04/03/2024 08:28

The problem with work to rule is that it's impossible to meet the needs of the children adequately. That kills me as much as the work load.

WarriorN · 04/03/2024 08:32

Sick pay has been massively eroded by MATs and the academy system.
In a maintained school, it was 6 months full pay, then 6 months half pay. Hugely helped a colleague who was going through cancer treatment.

That's appalling, how have they got away with that?

It's such a physical job. I had to take more time off than a friend mostly due to the physical nature of the job (and I'm part time) for the same treatments. She works from home almost full time. And can schedule naps if needed as the medication makes you tired.

I've had to work out and strength train to be strong enough to return.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 04/03/2024 11:36

DdraigGoch · 04/03/2024 05:48

Personally I'd suggest a collective work to rule. I know that your contracts have vague clauses about having to do unpaid overtime as required with no limit specified so I'd refuse to work more than 48hrs in any given week.

Technically, we are. There is very, very little you can refuse so no actual time saving.

Appuskidu · 04/03/2024 17:47

Work to rule had been tried before-it doesn’t make a difference. You still have to do your job; planning, marking, assessment, parents evening etc. You basically still have to do all directed time tasks plus any hours on top that are needed to discharge your professional duties. If you don’t, you open yourself up to a shiny new support plan.

You shouldn’t be doing lunch or break duties anyway. The only other thing you could stop is trips. I find trips quite stressful, so it wouldn’t actually bother me not doing too much, but many teachers like them and obviously the kids generally love them.

DdraigGoch · 04/03/2024 19:52

Appuskidu · 04/03/2024 17:47

Work to rule had been tried before-it doesn’t make a difference. You still have to do your job; planning, marking, assessment, parents evening etc. You basically still have to do all directed time tasks plus any hours on top that are needed to discharge your professional duties. If you don’t, you open yourself up to a shiny new support plan.

You shouldn’t be doing lunch or break duties anyway. The only other thing you could stop is trips. I find trips quite stressful, so it wouldn’t actually bother me not doing too much, but many teachers like them and obviously the kids generally love them.

Under the Working Time Regulations you cannot work more than 48 hours per week on average (averaged over 17 weeks). You can opt out of that rule voluntarily but cannot be made to by your employer. If there's too much work to do within a 48hr week then your employer will have to lump it. They can't force you to exceed it. Attempts to claim that staff not getting tasks done must be poor performers are rendered null and void if all of you are failing to get reports in on time - it needs collective action.

echt · 04/03/2024 20:28

I've done working to rule in Victoria, which is easier as we have a 38-hour week.

However, not doing lunch "duties", lunch classes, clubs, and trips are still effective. I'd not heard of the WTR - 40 hour a week maximum is close to the 38 hours we have in Victoria and I assure you it concentrated the attention of government very quickly indeed.

DdraigGoch · 04/03/2024 21:21

echt · 04/03/2024 20:28

I've done working to rule in Victoria, which is easier as we have a 38-hour week.

However, not doing lunch "duties", lunch classes, clubs, and trips are still effective. I'd not heard of the WTR - 40 hour a week maximum is close to the 38 hours we have in Victoria and I assure you it concentrated the attention of government very quickly indeed.

If you're having difficulty sleeping later then this is the UK legislation on working hours: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/contents/made

It comes from an EU directive so will be followed by the 27 remaining member states, perhaps with small changes.

The Working Time Regulations 1998

These Regulations implement Council Directive 93/104/EC concerning certain aspects of the organization of working time (O.J. No. L307, 13.12.93, p.18) and provisions concerning working time in Council Directive 94/33/EC on the protection of young peopl...

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/contents/made

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 21:37

Not entirely clear how it applies to teachers as it is averaged over 17 weeks, which would include a half term and a holiday. Annual leave is excluded but we don't have specified annual leave.

OP posts:
echt · 04/03/2024 21:49

It's the not exceeding 40 hours per week that's the clincher.

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 21:55

48 hours. A whole extra day a week.

OP posts:
saraclara · 04/03/2024 22:11

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 21:55

48 hours. A whole extra day a week.

I wish my DD and her partner did 48 hours a week. They do far more and I'm genuinely worried about their mental health.

I strongly suspect that they're not having children because they can't see how they can. Because they wouldn't have time for them.

They're both desperately looking for other jobs.

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 22:19

Oh I know there are many teachers doing more than 48 hours a week. The average is more than that.

I was just pointing out to echt that the working time regulations are max 48 hours a week (averaged over 17 weeks) not 40 hours a week.

OP posts:
echt · 04/03/2024 23:02

Sorry. I misread it.Blush Hell's bells. I suppose it would be down to school management to calendar the 48 hours, which of course they would not want to do. Jesus, it's entirely shit.

The only effective WTR is to dump the lunch duties, trips, catch-up classes, etc.

cardibach · 04/03/2024 23:09

JackSleepskin · 29/02/2024 23:07

Nah, I don’t think I could hack the endless complaining. I guess I’ll just do something else instead then rather then spend my adult life resenting my job and striking.

Edited

I have been a teacher for 35 years. Including last year’s strikes, I’ve been in strike 3 times ever. Where has this idea teachers strike all the time come from?
and as for the job - I loved teaching. Sadly being a teacher became unsustainable and I took voluntary redundancy and claimed my pension at 55. I do a bit of supply now.

saraclara · 04/03/2024 23:09

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2024 22:19

Oh I know there are many teachers doing more than 48 hours a week. The average is more than that.

I was just pointing out to echt that the working time regulations are max 48 hours a week (averaged over 17 weeks) not 40 hours a week.

I get that. My post wasn't a criticism of yours. Just an expression of worry about what the job is doing to my family.

cardibach · 04/03/2024 23:10

JackSleepskin · 29/02/2024 23:19

You’re embarrassing yourself now.

You’ve had 11.5% in 2 years, 17% for new teachers.

At no point have you had an actual pay cut.

It just isn’t possible be a martyr and desperate for more cash at the same time. Pick a lane. Want more money, leave, find something more financially rewarding. Want to endlessly complain? Stay, keep going, it certainly looks like a hobby from where I’m standing.

And how much in the last, say, 14?
And how does the real terms number stack up?

Appuskidu · 05/03/2024 07:05

The only effective WTR is to dump the lunch duties, trips, catch-up classes, etc

We don’t do lunch duties or catch up classes at my school and minima trips so this wouldn’t make any difference to us really.

It’s the ‘everything else’ which always comes under professional duties.

noblegiraffe · 05/03/2024 19:17

I was thinking about this as when I started teaching we had one set of Y11 mocks in November and it was 2 papers per kid to mark for maths. We entered the kids' totals for each paper onto a spreadsheet.

Now I'm gearing up to mark Y11's second set of mocks which is 3 papers to mark, so gone from 2 papers in Y11 to 6. Once I've marked them I have to enter every single mark for every single question for every single paper onto a spreadsheet.

So 'Y11 mocks' has exploded in terms of workload. And yet it would be very difficult to reduce this workload back to where it was because arguably it's useful for the kids.

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 05/03/2024 19:42

noblegiraffe · 05/03/2024 19:17

I was thinking about this as when I started teaching we had one set of Y11 mocks in November and it was 2 papers per kid to mark for maths. We entered the kids' totals for each paper onto a spreadsheet.

Now I'm gearing up to mark Y11's second set of mocks which is 3 papers to mark, so gone from 2 papers in Y11 to 6. Once I've marked them I have to enter every single mark for every single question for every single paper onto a spreadsheet.

So 'Y11 mocks' has exploded in terms of workload. And yet it would be very difficult to reduce this workload back to where it was because arguably it's useful for the kids.

I left teaching after the first year of more than one set of mocks.

I don’t think they did anything at all except make the students more stressed and anxious.

My Dd had 3 sets of mocks. It made no difference except tears and tantrums every night. It was relentless. For 9 subjects 3 times a year. How is that good for teenagers?

NorthernGirlie · 05/03/2024 19:45

We have to enter every single mark too - I'm a fast marker but it's still around 10 minutes per student per paper by the time I mark, track and write a feedback sheet for each child

I teach 157 students per week - all exam classes. That's twenty odd hours per paper I need to find. In theory I can mark while the next students do their mock but if I don't patrol every few minutes they're acting up so you can imagine how that goes... or I need to be a reader / scribe for those who need it.

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