To wonder how a police national intelligence database got it so wrong re Wayne Couzens?

[Rangelife]

I have been following the inquiry/Angiolini report into Wayne Couzens, his role in the police and the years before he committed the disgusting murder of Sarah Everard. This paragraph from the BBC has really unsettled me:

'Lady Elish Angiolini says in 2018, when Couzens joined the Metropolitan Police, a search of the Police National Database - an intelligence database - found "no trace". In fact there were entries about an incident in 2013 when he was reported missing from home, and an allegation of indecent exposure from 2015. These were also missed when he applied to be a firearms officer the following year.'

There's two explanations here, both worrying. Either the database isn't red flagging previous police contact in it's vetting procedures OR the humans who are running the database and analysing the results are seeing the results but recording it as 'no trace' anyway? There doesn't seem to be any curiosity about what happened with the database, but as we have seen from the Post Office scandal these things matter. You would have thought that the vetting procedures would be failproof surely? Police get a lot of power, contact with vulnerable people and get their hands on weapons such as CS spray, tazers or firearms?

My guess is that because the previous incident was 'merely an allegation' the officer decided it wasn't relevant.

Remember how much "soft" data goes into an enhanced DBS ?

Now compare and contrast.

It's awful. There are always mistakes it seems these days.
Poor Sarah. Must be so hard for her parents, and friends to have to live with that. Sheer incompetence makes you mad xx

It's systemic corruption and now the police have a chance to weed out those they know to be bent coppers.

Well done Elish!

Is it failing to see them as a big deal? He was a kid. He misread the boundaries.

We know it’s a big deal because of how he continued to behave.
Lots of young men are appalling. Most of them learn better.

It wasn’t seen as scummy to get your girlfriend drunk and take advantage.

Im 55 and in addition to more serious incidents had a bloke get seriously handsy- hard to get away from, two blokes who were defeated by my clothes (and I have no help because I didn’t want to be there).

It was just normal. You were supposed not to put yourself in those situations.

NI numbers ARE unique.

The police simply don't have access to that particular database, which is about as messed up as a three yr old's bedroom. (It's run by HMRC.)

My problem is that they simply weren't watching his behaviour and attitudes whilst in service.

NINo's are recycled.

This means that at any one time only one living person will have a particular number but since they can be reassigned after death you cannot consider them unique to one person across long term records. Its perfectly possible to get more than one response to a NINo when looking at historic records.

This is why they are not used as primary search criteria or unique identifiers in historic records systems.

That is interesting, thank you.

It could be any number of things. Without seeing the specifics of what the original reports stated or how much searchable information they contain, it's just pure speculation.
PND is hugely powerful and is improving all the time, but it relies on good data being input onto the system, a skilled operator to extract the information and the IT to be working properly at the time of the check being conducted.
Any public sector employee will tell you how woefully inadequate the IT is, but there isn't the funding to improve it significantly.
Things would be easier if all police forces used the same IT systems and had access to the same info. It wouldn't solve issues around searching historic data but it would make things better going forward.

Despite a witness providing a car make, model colour and registration number police closed the case even though a check revealed cousins was the sole driver of the vehicle - without speaking to either Couzens or another witness.

I'm afraid there was considerable and unmistakable corruption.

In my previous role, I had to run DBS checks. The ordering system required you to describe the purpose of the check in 150 characters.

Once you ordered, someone on the service end would select the type they thought appropriate (adult or child/both). I copied and pasted the same description every time for the same role - it was for working with vulnerable adults.

About 50% of the time I had to follow up because the wrong sort of check was selected. Frightening.

Yes, I think you are right.

This.
Utterly heartbreaking

Do you mean at the time of the murder or was this in relation to the indecent exposure offences?

8 incidents of flashing, one sexual assault against a minor, one incident of trying to kidnap a woman by knifepoint. Yet 3 different police forces he worked for failed to pick any of this up and let him work as a policeman where he could masquerade as a hero whilst continue to target women. It’s an absolute disgrace.

Did they not know, or did they not care?

It's very simple. The police don't check their applicants.

Is the NI number even included in the police/crime databases? I suspect it isn't so would need a manual/separate cross check against HMRC databases.

This.

Perhaps (like the Post Office scandal) we should be listening to victims rather than adopt the default of victim blaming when it comes to alleged poor behaviour from our so-called "trusted" professionals??

There've been huge numbers of people who've suffered at the hands of police officers, doctors, social workers, etc., who've basically been fobbed off with the kind of lazy victim blaming of "they must have provoked them" or otherwise done something to deserve the poor treatment/abuse they received.

Of course they do!

”8 incidents of flashing, one sexual assault against a minor, one incident of trying to kidnap a woman by knifepoint. Yet 3 different police forces he worked for failed to pick any of this up”
surely not an accident? Corruption? Freemason protection?

Couzens wouldn't be the first bent copper suspected of being a Freemason.

@HelloMiss You really think so? You are very trusting to say the least.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66317717

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/16/northamptonshire-police-chief-suspended-over-falklands-war-medal-complaint

But if they vet them, that's worse, in that they must knowingly employ liars and fraudsters.

I think I prefer to think them incompetent

Corruption and cover ups. Misogyny is deeply entrenched! Look at the WhatsApp messages he sent.