Tell me about PGL camps - debating whether to encourage 7 year old to go

[Okaaaay]

My DD7 has been invited to a PGL camp with her Brownies in May. It’s not a Brownie takeover and she’d be going with about 20 girls and 3/4 leaders.

I’m really unsure as to whether to support her to go. Mostly from a safeguarding standpoint - I have no idea how the security around bedrooms work for example. They won’t have a leader with them in the bedroom - will they be in a secure pod where other guests can’t access? She’s also quite a reserved child, but I worry much more about her safety than I do about her being homesick to be honest. I don’t think these are unreasonable concerns. The leaders were a little dismissive and didn’t really get my safeguarding concerns - I don’t think I was direct enough in my questions.

Would love your insights into PGL and whether you’d consider for your 7 year old for 2 nights.

Seven is quite young to be away from home and I remember many girls crying with homesickness daily at Brownie camp!

I’d be worried about the pack leaders being dismissive of your safeguarding questions - that’s not a good look. My dd’s trip in Y6 involved a one hour presentation to all the parents about exactly what would happen along with a 4 page letter outlining all the risk assessments and answering more questions than I could have thought of myself. We had an open Q&A so parents could get comfortable - and these kids were 10 and 11!

You can expect all staff and any adults accompanying groups will have DBS clearance. When my dd they were in rooms of something like 4 to 8 girls and they appeared to be unable to intermingle with other schools except at mealtimes. I’m not sure how that was achieved though.

For just two nights, I guess there will be no requirement to shower and they can all dress themselves and I expect the brownie leaders are fully trained that they can’t be alone with children in closed rooms etc.

Two of my girls have been to Brownie camp and adored it. They’re both going to the next Brownie camp in June as they enjoyed it so much. Other 3 aren’t yet old enough but will also go. Couldn’t recommend it enough but it wasn’t a PGL, it was solely a Brownie camp.

Brownie leaders have to undertake a lot of training and achieve a qualification to take girls away. It is not something they volunteer to do lightly being responsible for other people's children while giving up their own time. If you have specific concerns write them down and ask if you can have 5mins at the end of a night, or drop them an email.

7 does seem a bit young. Both my DDs went in yr 6 with the school. Like a PP we had an in school meeting about it and a a very long letter detailing activities etc. both mine loved it and I would recommend PGL to anyone but, again, they were 10 and it was with the school. My eldest would have been five at 7 tbh but I know for a fact my youngest wouldn't have coped at that age x

Yeah do it!! Mine went with school, didn’t shower all week but had the best time!

I went to church holidays when I was 6. It was considered young - I was the youngest to ever go - but I was quite a confident youngster and they let me. I did enjoy it but needed to stand my ground a bit with the older ones as we were in dormitories split into 3 age groups so there were girls up to 11 in my dorm.

Brownies can be up to 10/11 too, so ask about the sleeping and activity arrangements. Only you know your child.

Mine went to a couple of these, there were bunk beds in a big room, I think they were fairly safe. My DD did get hit on the head with a sailing boom on one! She had a great time although a very quiet child, lots of activities she would never have normally experienced, came back totally full of how many things she did and how much fun it was.

Thank you - a real mix of views! I think it would help her confidence hugely but I’m just worried about how safe she’ll be. I wouldn’t let her sleep in a hotel room on holiday with and external door and no adult, hence feel uncomfortable doing that on a camp. Maybe that gives me the answer.

I think times have changed. We never had any issues but we probably deserved to get into trouble. When I was a little older than 6 we raided the boys dorm - throwing water over them and then running back and hiding under the covers!

And we raided the kitchens!

The girls were worse than the boys who really didn't care much for us!

We stayed in public schools over their holiday period. On one the headmaster did the rounds with squeaky shoes and we would sneak behind him until he caught on then run away calling him Grumpy Lumpy!

I'm really very surprised we didn't get hammered as it was the 70s!

Mine have been on PGL holidays with school and with brownies. I seem to recall they all had dorms of varying size with bunks and the leaders rooms were in the same corridor - I'm sure they'll vary depending on each destination. I would ask your brownies leader some more questions and also if you're worried then I'd suggest volunteering to go along as I am sure they will need volunteers and then she doesn't miss out your daughter can experience it.

Mine started going away on PGL holidays for two nights when they were 7. They also did brownies and cub camp respectively.

They loved it.

If you aren't sure whether she is confident enough you could try a sleepover at a grandparents or a cousin?

The girls will be in a dorm together, you can Google which pgl it is and see photos/plans of the dorms. They will have a shared bathroom (only girls -adults will have a separate one) Liddington is all 4 to a room and ensuite, the others are a mix of dorms with shower rooms between them, they will not be sharing with another group.

The adults will all be DBS checked and have had references and done safeguarding training. They will be sleeping in a nearby room and will probably take turns to sit in the corridor and listen out for mischief/homesick brownies until they all drop off, they should tell the brownies how to find them in the middle of the night in case of an emergency/bad dream/wet bed/feeling sad/lost toy/being sick....
In the morning the leaders will be woken up by the first giggly brownies to venture out and slam their dorm door (if they make it to 5am they will have done well!)
If it's more than one night they will be exhausted on the 2nd night and actually sleep at bedtime!

When they go home the brownies might be really tired and emotional, it doesn't necessarily mean they've had an awful time, it's generally exhaustion (unless they did have an awful time, then listen and let the leaders know!)

If you want to volunteer and help on camp they will probably welcome you with open arms!

I am a brownie leader (although ive never taken my girls to PGL, we just use local guiding venues, so i can't specifically comment on the bedroom situation). Im sorry that you felt the leaders were dismissive. I would follow up in writing with specific bullet point questions and ask for a response. Generally, asking at the start or end of a meeting wont get you the focus you need, because there's always lots of other stuff going on or other parents with questions or trying to clear out of the venue before the next group arrive etc. The questions you've raised are all the sort of thing that i would have on my risk assessment so if they dont have the answer, they should be able to get you an answer.

I would say that in my experience its very rare that every girl in a unit goes on the brownie holidays. So if you decide your DD wasnt ready, its unlikely she would be the only one. It could be something to consider for when she is 8+. The leaders should also be running a parents meeting (although this is usually closer to the actual event so probably not helpful at this point).

I wouldn't let DD stay in a hotel room without an adult because they are open to the public, PGL sites are closed and everyone on site should be accounted for (and all adults will be DBS checked)

The adults do not sleep in the same room as the girls for safeguarding reasons.

However the usual procedure is that there are adult rooms in between the girls' rooms so they are not far from an adult.

In addition there will usually be an adult on corridor duty until quite late into the night - I used to read a book - and from fairly early in the morning.

Why would you be worried about someone coming into the accommodation???

What makes you think anyone on site would do that???

The reason they're probably dismissive is because there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Tens of thousands of kids go away with Girl Guiding each year. They use approved centres, all adults in the centre and in GG are DBS checked and all organisations have safeguarding and risk assessments.

I would be willing to bet hat not a single adult that shouldn't have access to a room has tried to access a kids room

It's the other kids you need to "worry" about, but the leaders absolutely will be up til gone midnight ensuring all the kids are asleep before they go to sleep, and they will be in "high alert" for shenanigans. I know I waswhen I was a leader in GG.

You should be more concerned about making sure your daughter knows who to turn to if she's sad/homesick etc.

Thanks all, appreciate your views.

I offered to volunteer straight away but this was turned down (they have had previous bad experiences of parents going and their child never leaving their side). Which I understand.

@wubwubwub thank you. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to question whether there is a way an adult, not with the brownie group, can access the section where young girls are sleeping. I don’t know the PGL set up at all and how easy it is to access the building. I understand that this will have been thought through but I don’t know the detail hence the ask of those who may have been.

I've been away with a beavers camp (6-8) and in my experience, they cope far better than you think they will. In a genuine gobsmacked way, how well they just get in with it. Kids that you think will never manage, absolutely loving it.

If girl guiding is anything like scouting, the safeguarding policy will be watertight. Adults don't sleep in the same room as children but there will be no way that the children can get out without alerting and leader etc.

The group leader will be very knowledgeable about the ins and outs but as mentioned, at the start/end of a meeting isn't the right time to ask as they're generally chaos. Email with your concerns, but again, as someone else has said, these camps go on regularly, the policies, risk assesment and safeguarding will be so fine tuned it will be second nature to them.

@foreverandalltime really appreciate that, thank you. Very reassuring.

My daughter was 12 when she went last year. She absolutely loved it and is going again. It's really well organised and the activities were amazing. It depends on your 7 year old. If you think they'll be ok away from home. I have no concerns about safety as there seemed to be a big staff to child ratio. Honestly the camp was the making of my daughter. She came back with so much more confidence.

Mine went to something similar except it was subsidised. He went on his own, he didn't know anyone, the children were 7 to 11. Why does it matter if they mix with other guests?

When mine have been to PGL there were (PGL) night staff patrolling throughout the night. I think in pairs for safeguarding reasons. Tbh, the main issue at night is making sure the kids actually get some sleep!

My 9yo is about to go on PGL and the sleeping / staff supervision arrangements are exactly as others have outlined.

Both my DC have been away with Brownies/Beavers from age 6 and had the most amazing time.

If she’s otherwise happy to go I wouldn’t let safeguarding concerns stop you. Safeguarding is taken very seriously in these environments.

I think 7 is a bit young, mine have done PGL in yr 4 & loved it

I have been away with Brownies to a PGL twice. They nice we stayed in accommodation in a 'motel' type block, and the other was in our own private dorm block.
The motel type one had external doors, and there was a school staying nearby who woke the girls up. We did as everyone else has said, and had leaders on either end of the girls' rooms, and also made sure we stayed up till the girls had gone quiet.
We also did this for the dorm block, but as we were all behind one external door we could at least go into our rooms before the girls slept.
GG rules are very tight surrounding overnights, as are PGL, so those security issues will undoubtedly be covered by various RA's.
The PGL staff will also do a sweep of the site, and often the site will be locked up overnight too. In our case there was an 8ft fence around the sleeping buildings!!
No other guests will be able to access the rooms, and all doors will have a lock on them.
In both cases with us, we only saw other guests at mealtimes and passing by between activities.
The staff are fantastic, and they're very well versed in homesickness too!
Personally I'd say go for it! But she also has a further 3 years in which to attend if this time it doesn't feel like the best for her xx