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WWYD? food poisoning at nursery

18 replies

foxp3 · 23/02/2024 07:41

DS is 2.5yrs and goes to nursery 3 days a week. He has autism and non verbal, generally happy there and has good relationships with nursery staff but I'm aware their supervision isn't always on the ball, they have materials out for messy play but don't always have a staff member sat at eg the playdough table and will just cast an eye over now and then.
He is known to eat things he shouldn't. He's eaten the playdough before, staff say they remind him not to but he keeps doing it. He eats chalk. He'll put almost anything in his mouth.
On Tuesday morning his dirty nappy was FULL of rice. I was worried it was worms (so much of it and I've never seen it come out whole before) so checked with nursery and turns out their messy play on Monday was uncooked rice and he was seen eating handfuls of it. They didn't seem concerned.
He started vomiting on Wednesday. Refused food and drink yesterday, vomited again last night. He's got a high temp and is poorly poorly. I've got no proof that it's food poisoning from the uncooked rice but it seems very likely.
I don't want to over react but I'm not happy and it could easily happen again.
Being pragmatic - I wouldn't normally go to GP for vomiting kids illness but given the circumstances I'm wondering whether to call them to report(?) it, (as it will be somewhat confirmed if the nursery need a record), talk to the nursery manager, but is there anyone else to talk to? They are short staffed so probably need more staff or my child needs a 1:1 (which could be the case anyway).
Or would you leave it alone?

OP posts:
Justkeepswimmingswimming · 23/02/2024 07:46

Does he have plan about how they can manage his needs and his PICA?

birdling · 23/02/2024 07:47

Oh dear, your poor ds. To be honest, it really sounds like he needs a 1 to 1, especially if they are short staffed. As to them not seeming worried about him eating uncooked rice, I expect that they had no idea how much of an issue rice can be. A lot of people don't know and just think, 'its only rice'.
Definitely take him to the doctors, but just let the nursery staff know what has happened, and the probable cause.

foxp3 · 23/02/2024 07:53

@Justkeepswimmingswimming he has a support plan but is mostly about development goals (and some 1:1 time with his key worker to support that) rather than supervision. A specialist teacher goes in for visits and she thinks he'll need an EHCP to move into the preschool room as they have bigger ratios - but maybe I should ask about it now. She's due to see him there again soon.
I wasn't sure about his age and whether all children would be eating the materials and they need to supervise them all better! He found a bottle of tippex there once and poured it over his head. Didn't wash out of his scalp for weeks.

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foxp3 · 23/02/2024 07:58

@birdling my older child goes there and has a 1:1. Only, he mostly doesn't have it as she is used in ratios in other rooms when they are short staffed. He's a risk to others rather than himself though - so they end up having to manage with the staff already in the room. Not ideal for anyone.
I'm just not so confident if my younger child needed a 1:1 for his own sake it would actually happen reliably either.
(The nursery get full funding for the 1:1).

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 23/02/2024 08:00

Uncooked rice is not safe to eat.
Raw or uncooked rice is not safe to eat for two specific reasons. The first is that rice can harbor bacteria that can cause food poisoning. The other is that it contains a protein that your body can't digest, and this protein can cause several problems for your body

LoveSandbanks · 23/02/2024 08:21

foxp3 · 23/02/2024 07:58

@birdling my older child goes there and has a 1:1. Only, he mostly doesn't have it as she is used in ratios in other rooms when they are short staffed. He's a risk to others rather than himself though - so they end up having to manage with the staff already in the room. Not ideal for anyone.
I'm just not so confident if my younger child needed a 1:1 for his own sake it would actually happen reliably either.
(The nursery get full funding for the 1:1).

If the nursery are being funded for a 1:1 for your child they are LEGALLY obliged to provide it. This resource is NOT to be used to support ratios elsewhere. While this is not the subject of your initial post, in my view, it needs addressing.

I would email the nursery and copy in your sons caseworker at the LA. In my (extensive) experience in this area (🙄) that gets results quite quickly.

happypillsareworking · 23/02/2024 08:26

The trouble is the money they'll be getting will be no where near enough. Even the highest band is paltry.

Yes the nursery should provide it but the government need to start funding for SEN properly.

dottiedodah · 23/02/2024 10:26

I would not be happy about this .Report and also tell the GP as well Rice is unsafe to eat raw

DelilahBucket · 23/02/2024 10:30

Supervision problems aside, he is not poorly from food poisoning 48 hours after eating. Symptoms start very quickly not two days later.

BrutusMcDogface · 23/02/2024 10:30

Yes, take him to the doctor and make a formal complaint to the nursery. It might help them get funding for his 1:1.

In my places of work (preschool; sen school) we watch them like a hawk with uncooked rice in a sensory tray. Any child who goes to eat the rice is stopped and if they continue, they’re moved away from the activity.

I would not let this one slide.

BrutusMcDogface · 23/02/2024 10:32

Soontobe60 · 23/02/2024 08:00

Uncooked rice is not safe to eat.
Raw or uncooked rice is not safe to eat for two specific reasons. The first is that rice can harbor bacteria that can cause food poisoning. The other is that it contains a protein that your body can't digest, and this protein can cause several problems for your body

It’s clear here, @DelilahBucket . Doesn’t have to necessarily be food poisoning but problems caused by eating large quantities of uncooked rice.

Newbalancebeam · 23/02/2024 10:34

Your child doesn’t need an EHCP to go into the next room, he needs an EHCP full stop. It sounds like the nursery are clueless around how to deploy 121s and they should know that if they’re funded for a particular child, they stick with that child. I’d contact the EY team at your local council and get their support. I’d also be looking to move settings as this is not good enough.

Cluborange666 · 23/02/2024 10:38

Your child is clearly not safe in this nursery. I would look for alternative childcare. He needs 1-1. If you could afford it, a nanny would be better.

DelilahBucket · 23/02/2024 10:40

BrutusMcDogface · 23/02/2024 10:32

It’s clear here, @DelilahBucket . Doesn’t have to necessarily be food poisoning but problems caused by eating large quantities of uncooked rice.

Yes It isn't safe to eat, but it still would not take two days for symptoms to start. His body had clearly started the digesting process as the rice was found in his nappy.

Utini · 23/02/2024 10:48

DelilahBucket · 23/02/2024 10:30

Supervision problems aside, he is not poorly from food poisoning 48 hours after eating. Symptoms start very quickly not two days later.

That's not true, there are many different forms of bacterial food poisoning that can take a couple of days or more to cause symptoms, as with many illnesses there is an incubation period where the bacteria multiply to levels that cause symptoms.

I once was very ill with campylobacter three days after eating some undercooked turkey.

ilovebreadsauce · 23/02/2024 11:36

The timing and pattern of symptoms do not sound like food poisoning from the rice.

ilovebreadsauce · 23/02/2024 11:37

Has he got stomach pains and diarrhoea?

foxp3 · 23/02/2024 19:23

I spoke to the specialist teacher today as she's due to visit. I asked if I should think about moving setting if my younger child will need a 1:1 and I've arranged to speak to a new preschool who have lots of experience with SEN and EHCPs and were realistic about hours they could guarantee 1:1 for (eg 15 rather than 30 but would at least still get it!)

The problem seems to be recruiting rather than just funding, and short staffing in general which means my older child's support gets pulled if it means they can keep ratios correct in another room and not have to close it. They seem to be staffed at bare minimum all the time so breaks/sickness just means they're all running round covering each other.

The SEN teacher is going to talk about him eating the resources and see if he needs a risk assessment for that. He could get recommended (via an EHCP or just with the nursery) to have extra supervision I'm just not convinced the nursery will ensure it happens.

In other news - PPs were prob right about rice being a red herring, I just hadn't realised how bad it was to eat uncooked in any quantity until he got ill but may well have been coincidence with a normal tummy bug! It was the trigger for me raising it with nursery though so thank you all for the advice.

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