5 year old shouting in cafe

[twoofusburningmatches]

I’m keen to understand how other parents would have handled this/what I should have done/do in future.

The short version is: my reception aged child was shouting/screaming in a cafe because she wasn’t getting her own way.

the long version is: it’s half term here and I’ve spent the day with my eldest, who is in reception, and my 2 year old. We had a nice day. In the afternoon, my eldest had her usual swimming lesson and we went to the cafe at the gym afterwards for a drink (and shared a muffin). We were just chatting etc. I mentioned we’d need to go soon, as dinner was in the oven. Eldest picked up some colouring pencils that the cafe had to the side, but I said I didn’t have anything to colour in with me (nor did the cafe). But I checked the time and said they could do some sticker books from my bag for 10 mins before we went.

When I checked the bag, the books I thought were in there weren’t - my eldest hadn’t put them back after using them earlier. There was another book belonging to the eldest, but I said they’d have to share it. Otherwise we’d head home. Eldest said it wasn’t fair, it was her book and she’d only agree to that if the toddler only got one sticker. I said that I knew it was her book, and if she wanted to keep it for herself, that was okay. But it wouldn’t be fair for the youngest to sit there when the toddler was without her book because the eldest hadn’t put it back in the bag after using it earlier. So she had two choices: either share or we could go home and she could keep the book for herself.

she said no and that if she didn’t get her way, she would scream. And then started to scream/shout. I told her to stop and that her behaviour wasn’t okay. when she didn’t stop I picked her up and started to carry her out to the car. She was still crying/shouting/screaming.

When she got to the car, I told her again what she did wasn’t okay and why and that we wouldn’t go to the cafe next week. I tried to speak to her about it this evening, but she doesn’t seem particularly sorry.

We’ve had one occasion like this at the same cafe about five months ago after she started reception. I put it down to her being shattered. She is tired at the moment again, as she’s had a virus and has been run down.

She is very sociable, loving child. But also very stubborn. And can be quite emotional. She is starting to make more threats - if you don’t do x, I won’t do y etc. Her teachers say she is very bright and her comprehension is very, very good.

her sister always wants her stuff/to do everything she is doing. And I do make her share sometimes, but I always am trying to let her have some stuff that is hers. Maybe that isn’t the right approach?

Please tell me how you’d have handled this?

What did you do with the 2 year old while you were taking the eldest out of the cafe into the carpark

You handled it pretty perfectly to be fair

Not as patiently as you did is my honest answer, though I often reflect on my parenting and wish I could be more like you. I think you dealt with it fine. Even the most disciplined kids have the occasional public meltdown

Sounds like a fairly standard afternoon with two small children to me. I think you handled it well, in a similar manner to how I would have on a good day.....never negotiate with a terrorist 🤣

@SushiMayo initially she just walked alongside me in the building, then tried to leg in, so put eldest down and picked up youngest. And then we all walked out of the building with me now holding the youngest (who was then cross because I hadn’t let her run away)

Meh, there's no right and wrong here. You feel awful and as if everyone is watching and judging, but it's not really a big deal.

You could have a word now (after things have calmed down) with your older DD about not taking books out of the bag without asking. Or you could have told her at the time that, because she'd removed the other books that your younger child might have used, she needed to share hers. It'd depend - she's really quite young, so I'm not sure I'd have made a huge deal of it and would probably, like you, just have weathered the storm.

I am so familiar with the 'if you won't do x I won't do y' stage! DD is six and I am eagerly awaiting the day this ends. It helps me to keep grimly repeating to myself that it is developmentally useful - it's how they try to figure out rules, and they don't automatically get that there is a hierarchy here (ie., what mummy says, goes!).

I think you managed well. I am of the idea that once they can express themselves with words no tantrums or shouting are to be tolerated. There is simply no reason for it.

One thing I learned early on is that if you don’t shout, they won’t either.

I would say with my 6 year old DD that there is no reasoning with her when tired. So I think a busy day with swimming I would suggest to head straight home. Focus on how to prevent the tired tantrum than how you deal with it. 5 years old are still little.

sounds like you handled it all well though

She is starting to make more threats - if you don’t do x, I won’t do y etc. Her teachers say she is very bright and her comprehension is very, very good.

To be fair, the former might just be a consequence of the latter. People say "if you hit children, then you're teaching them to hit", well, if you try to modify their behaviour by explaining that the consequence for poor behaviour is something they won't like, then maybe you're also teaching them to try to modify your behaviour by explaining that the consequence is something you won't like. She's not being threatening, she's just trying to use a tool that's been modelled to her I think it's probably inevitable.

I think you handed it very well.

I also agree with the no negotiating with terrorists comment above. Any threats and all negotiations are off the table immediately.

Agree you handled it really well. Just remember next week not to go to the cafe (even if you really want to). Don't make a big deal of it, just a quick "we aren't going to the cafe this week as you screamed last week, if by next week you are sure you are ready to behave like a big girl and not scream, we'll try again". Or something similar.

Thank you all. I think her apparent lack of remorse has left me questioning my response. I can’t tell if I should have been harsher. Or if instead of picking her up, I should have stopped and tried to calm her in the cafe (but I wanted to get her away from there because I felt it wasn’t fair on everyone else trying to have their coffee in peace. She was loud!)

I did say to her later this evening that she wouldn’t like it if I had shouted at her like she had shouted at me.

And I find these threats she makes really infuriating! Interesting that i4 is developmentally useful! I’ll need to keep telling myself that.

@ChocolateRat I think this is true but it is also infuriating!

@SummerInSun yes, I agree, I need to follow through with this. And I think the casual approach is the way to go, even though I expect she’ll be angry again.