Is this a thing? Are other people's teenagers like this too?

[WhatHaveIDoneNow]

DD in Y10 hates school with a passion. She is academically able and does reasonably well, except in maths where she's struggling massively. We've offered to get her a private tutor but she refuses. Also her teacher couldn't have offered any more support. Yet every time she does, DD hates her even more. DD interprets as 'she's picking on me', and feels extremely self-conscious when the teacher hovers over her desk to see if she's struggling and needs some assistance. She never asks for help herself, even when she needs it, so the teacher must feel at a complete loss. The teacher has discreetly offered DD to see her any break or lunchtime that suits DD. DD admitted that yes, it was a nice offer, but she wasn't going to go.

After a long conversation where for a long time I was getting nowhere, DD finally said that going to maths 'clinic' at break or lunch would mean missing out on being with her friends, who she adores and she says they're the only reason she goes to school. There's no reasoning with DD that this only needs to be once a week, and that it's just until she manages to catch up. She's having none of it. The thought of missing out on being with her friends is unbearable to her, almost like it's some sort of social suicide. I am trying to be supportive and see things from her pov, but I am struggling here. Is this a thing, that teens cannot possibly not be present with their friends at all times?

Op it could also be that your daughter is embarrassed by the extra attention??? My son was exactly the same, felt like everyone was laughing at him for getting extra attention. .....

I wonder how she'll feel when she's repeating GCSE maths next year and her friends aren't?

So DS was a bit like this.... my father (whom DS listens to more than me) then outlined the many many jobs which require maths GCSE, and pointed out that he could either get the required grade the first time around, or he could allocate time during his A Levels to preparing to resit it. DS now goes to tutoring on a Saturday and does one break a week with his teacher.... and actually, he now enjoys maths more, because he's not struggling quite so much.

Yes.

It's really common,

I taught secondary maths for a number of years.

A lot of teens don't want help from the teacher because it exposes to peers that they need help and they are not ok with that. They want to look like they are good at the subject without needing the help.

Some students will accept discreet help but a lot won't. Maths clinics and the like are very rarely attended, and generally only by the ones who know they are doing well and just want some help with topic X.

To support the GCSE kids who needed help we put on extra interventions but they had to be made compulsory otherwise no-one would come.

More kids will accept a home tutor as long as no-one knows, but some find even that really shameful.

A substantial number will stick their head in the sand and would rather not have any feelings of failure and shame now and don't work and as a result do badly. They do tend to regret it after... but that is after.

I think this needs to be set in perspective. Of course she wants to be with her friends right now. But what are her plans in the longer term? She might need to think about how she is going to get her GCSE grade up, if there is a risk of failing (so having to repeat) or not getting the grade she wants for further study.
She might be like my DD, who refused a tutor but who taught herself basically using Youtube. But first she had to be motivated to want to pass.

This might be the way to get through to her
Most places require a pass at maths for a college/6th form place
If she's devastated at missing out one hour a week with her friends how embarrassed will she be when they are all in sixth form/in a level classes and shes has to go to college on her own to repeat her gcses?

Maybe give her the choice - it's either the proper engagement with the maths teacher in school time or a maths tutor in her own time but if she won't agree to either then you'll stop all lifts/support for her to see her friends outside of school thus leading her to miss out much more than an hour or two a week.

Thank you all.

I can't help but think that this has less to do with maths, and more with her friends. As if she feels that she will be forgotten if she's not present.

My son was like this, he felt like everyone thought he was "stupid" for having to have the extra attention.

I think it may be more than missing time with her friends but also can see from her side how that would be too.

My children aren’t teenagers yet but I remember high school well (wasn’t that long ago!) and I was actually in pretty much this position too. Academically, I was fine with everything but maths. I couldn’t grasp the concept of it, no matter what. The teacher around me made me incredibly nervous, the extra attention made me anxious and I hated the rest of the class picking up on how much I was struggling (which they then used as ammunition to bully me).

I was offered extra help at lunch which is accepted (pretty much was forced) and I missed out on time with my friends. Not only did I then not have enough time to eat but I also didn’t have a break for my brain to just stop and have fun. I also missed out on inside jokes with my friends and things they’d plan for the weekend and I started to feel like an outsider in my own friendship group so I stopped the extra help at lunch. Whilst school and education are obviously very important, so are friendships, especially at such a young age and I think most teenagers will naturally care about that more than their lessons.

I ended up failing maths and having to retake it in college. I would sit your daughter down again and tell her that if she doesn’t accept the help, she’s at a big risk of failing her maths GCSE which may result in her not getting into a college course she may want. I wasn’t accepted onto A Level Law because I had failed which broke my heart. She would also most likely be required to re take it at college which would put her back into the same position again.

I completely understand her side, having gone through it myself but also 100% get it from yours. All you can do is support and encourage her. I wish I had listened to everyone telling me to just accept the extra help and it would have saved me a whole load of tears and extra stress!

I'd just arrange the private tutor. I'm rather bored of Y10s thinking they know it all and refusing things like tutors. Been there, done that.

If they are refusing to engage with the private tutor after say 3 sessions, then save your money. However, my guess is you'll get a pleasant surprise.

I would over rule her on the home tutor. It sounds like she's hugely embarrassed about needing extra help (completely normal for a teenager), a home tutor avoids her needing to be embarrassed because no-one else needs to know about it. At the same time I'd try to work on her self esteem and model not knowing things and asking for help, even better if you can ask her to show you things she's good at, ask her for help, so she starts to understand everyone needs help with certain things.

I would book a tutor to come round just for a session or two initially. Your DD may be resistant to the idea of it, but if you say it's just to see how things go and find out where she's up to then she might find she can deal with the idea of a couple of sessions. This means she won't miss out on time with friends at school, or feel singled out. I'd be sympathetic to not wanting help at school but trying out a tutor is reasonable as getting Maths GCSE is so important.

Around the same age, I struggled with French and had lunchtime French catch up sessions offered (via teachers) by a sixth former. It was a nice idea but I didn't really benefit from it, I missed out on lunch which felt miserable, I felt a bit stupid for needing the sessions at school and there wasn't the time to get into it (20 or 30 mins) whereas a tutoring session is generally an hour a week (could be more if needed) which is enough to make some progress.

The right tutor could make all the difference to unlocking her understanding of Maths, in a home environment. She might even start to enjoy it. Maths wasn't my strong subject either but when it did start to click I did enjoy being able to do it and get it right.

Totally normal for many teens.

Can you bargain with her - you'll host a pizza night for her friends every Friday if she attends maths clinic?

Yes, I do think that friends and social life is the be all and end all for many teenagers, it's such a vital part of their identity and self-image.

I would pull rank as her parent and get the home tutor in at a time when she wouldn't be seeing her friends anyway.

I agree that you need to overrule her on the home tutor. Just try it and see. It's likely she will feel much more comfortable with a tutor as they are less in a position of authority than a teacher.

I really would come down hard on this - try 3 sessions say and offer a reward at the end?

I had a tutor for a subject I struggled with at GCSE. It really helped.

As others have said getting maths GCSE is essential for pretty much everything so make sure she knows. I had the joy of re-doing it in my first year of college which wasn't much fun especially as none of my friends had to re-take.

My Y6 daughter does a maths masterclass once a week, which she doesn't mind as much as I thought, because she skips a PE lesson, which she hates even more. She can do better, she just hates being told what to do and has since Reception.

She's been getting less bad over the last two years.

DD at v an academic school was like this too. They feel like they are the only one when in fact they are probably quite average or above average in the population as a whole. Comparing yourself to a particularly academic group just is not realistic. DD is dyslexic with slower processing so once something is missed in class because it went too fast for her to grasp first time it's tricky - combine that with not wanting to look stupid and it's a problem.

Fortunately I got her a tutor & her confidence grew to the point she did go to clinics at school. It helped that one of her friends was in a similar position, so they went together. It became non-negotiable. She got a 7 in the end. (From a 4/5 in the mocks).

Work on getting a tutor at the weekend.

Teenage girls are a blimming nightmare!

I’d ignore her moaning and protests and make her go to the free maths clinic

Totally normal for quite a few teens. Sometimes it's self-consciousness about needing help. With some teens it's genuinely that they simply prioritise friends and social lives far above school work. If I'm honest, it's hard to do anything about that except by making it compulsory to attend clinics etc (e.g. issue detentions if they don't attend).

I would see if you can get her to see an online tutor if that might help her feel less self conscious. This one used to be my son's maths teacher, and was one of the best teachers he ever had. https://mathsunlockedwithmradams.co.uk/

Sounds like she is embarrassed and humiliated by this extra attention from the teacher, because it shows her up in front of her friends.

My dd's friend was terrible at English and spelling, and used to get an extra hour's worth of homework every night because the teacher was trying to support her, but dd's friend saw it as a nightly punishment and absolutely hated it.