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Original poster

What will eventually happen with the State Pension?

345 replies

BrainInAJar · 01/02/2024 22:39

Hello,

I recently turned 40 and have been reviewing my finances.

A lot of stuff online factors in getting the State Pension. I'm trying to be on the safe side though and factor in that I might not get it, not the full thing anyway and maybe not until a much older age than earlier generations.

Just out of interest, what do you think will happen? Will any Government be "brave" enough to make sweeping changes? How much notice will we get? Who will be the first generation, if any, not to get a state pension?

Thanks

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
IDontHateRainbows · 01/02/2024 23:23

WhathappenedtoLeo · 01/02/2024 22:55

Without a state pension, surely the majority (or lots) of people will just be screwed?! How will people live?

I forsee some sort of communal housing for those not owning a home and unlucky enough to be too old to work but not yet needing a care home.
Think like student halls but for older folk. They may let couples share a room. There'll be a communal area with a TV, and a dining room serving dull cheap food.

They may get a meagre allowance akin to pocket money, as food and accommodation is provided this will be minimal. Savings will be exhausted first of course.

Grim.

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:25

@IDontHateRainbows i agree it will be an absolute shit show

ans that’s why a sustainable well structured system where people can invest to support their own retirement should be developed

the answer is not for old people to continue to be funded out of the taxes of young people

hellesbells · 01/02/2024 23:25

Houseplanter · 01/02/2024 23:20

If the state pension is means tested then so should every other 'benefit'. All of them.

They are all means tested with the exception of PIP

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Retirement & pensions
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 01/02/2024 23:25

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:00

@New2024 uk - other countries like Australia are doing far better

i think the state pension should be means tested - it astounds me that people don’t think they should find their own age

I very much think there should be a safety net - but it shouldn’t be paid to everyone. That’s why you get a perverse outcome such as now where wealthy people are getting state support whilst support for those in genuine need is restricted

but the problem is that it’s baked into peoples ideology in the UK and many people don’t seem to be rational about it

eg the whole “I’ve paid in” - there is no fund that is paid into - it’s paid out of the states
currwnt resources

I compare it to Australian system which is far better for private savjngs. People understand pensions far more and take responsibility far more

reliance on the state should be a needs must worst case scenario rather than a default for the entire aged population

but people will be outraged that I’ve said that

How do you find your own old age with the current col ? Your argument is assuming people have money to spare. But they don’t.

TeaMistress · 01/02/2024 23:27

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:17

@TeaMistress thar comment js what o mean by the ideology of it - this is a criticism of the ideology and not you personally

the government is not some separate entity - the state pension is paid by current tax payers. They haven’t “taken” your money. You’ve paid taxes - none of which have been put aside to find your pension

so it can only be funded by current tax payers - which is hugely unaffordable as people live longer and there are more old people than young people

as I said - to find a state pension of £10k per annum without using money from current tax payers around a £250k pot would be needed.

so the government would have had to put that much aside from the taxes that you paid in your working life. I can guarantee you wouldn’t have been happy to pay that much tax.

so it’s alll a huge smoke and mirrors that has become embedded into the uk ideology

it’s entirely possible to structure society where people can properly find their retirement with a safety net for the small minority who couldn’t

but the uk hasn’t done that and wont. It is a total
and utter public policy failure. And is largely because people believe jn this myth that the taxes they’ve paid - which have already been spent on other things and were t enough to fund this level of state pension - give them the right to a pension after they’ve stopped paying tax

I didn't take this as a personal criticism, so thank you for saying that but no offense was taken.

It is a failure of government policy as we now have a situation where a huge amount of people are paid low wages and struggle to make ends meet so cannot afford a private pension.

Dogdilemma2000 · 01/02/2024 23:28

5thCommandment · 01/02/2024 23:02

I'm 40 next month.

They raise the age every 3-4 years. It's quite deliberate to reduce the spend burden on the treasury. Its becoming too expensive - id expect a means-tested pension and eventual phase out.

If it were means tested those who earn into the 40p tax threshold would see tapered reductions until it was removed - that's the kind of thing coming I reckon.

Im fine with that, 12k/yr pension is absolute peanuts. Barely covers bills and food - if you're after a retirement of fun and travel after smashing it at work that won't cut the mustard!

Get a private one, invest properly and aim for a pension that matches your salary. Protect yourself and give yourself the freedom to retire at say 57 instead of 68.

All of that is very easy to say when you’re earning good money.

When you’re earning £25k, supporting 3 kids, paying a mortgage, where exactly are you meant to find the money to invest well? I do t ever buy take away coffee so cant cut that.

Houseplanter · 01/02/2024 23:28

I am astounded that it's thought ok to work from 16 to retirement age, paying every tax and NI contribution asked and then not entitled to a pension because you've also contributed to a private one.

But it's fine to contribute nothing and expect it.

Fuck that.

StarDolphins · 01/02/2024 23:31

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:25

@IDontHateRainbows i agree it will be an absolute shit show

ans that’s why a sustainable well structured system where people can invest to support their own retirement should be developed

the answer is not for old people to continue to be funded out of the taxes of young people

But I was(&still am) led to believe I would get a state pension which I concluded I could live on alongside my savings.

Had they said (& I know they haven’t yet) you won’t get a pension then that’s different but it’s too late for me now to build up any meaningful pension. So if state pension becomes means tested then I’m fucked.

it’s not like I can slowly withdraw & stash my savings over the coming decades because we’ll be cashless too by then!

Butterflyrainbow12 · 01/02/2024 23:31

I’m nearly 40 and thankfully will have a private pension but my mum had to work longer due to a recent change though getting it now. I’ve never been unemployed since I started work at 15. There is no help or support for people who work and the pension is all we get from the massive deductions from our wages. I think all hell would break loose if they did away with it, however I believe they will age it out the park so people pass without ever seeing a penny. My grandmother would never have been able to live without her pension and there will be so many worse off than her, without families who could step in or put a roof over their heads.

TeaMistress · 01/02/2024 23:32

Houseplanter · 01/02/2024 23:28

I am astounded that it's thought ok to work from 16 to retirement age, paying every tax and NI contribution asked and then not entitled to a pension because you've also contributed to a private one.

But it's fine to contribute nothing and expect it.

Fuck that.

This. Absolutely this.

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:34

@TeaMistress as with all benefits it should be a safety net when the worst happens

you have not paid enough in taxes in your working life to fund the state oension you expect unless you have been an extremely high earner

StarDolphins · 01/02/2024 23:37

Houseplanter · 01/02/2024 23:28

I am astounded that it's thought ok to work from 16 to retirement age, paying every tax and NI contribution asked and then not entitled to a pension because you've also contributed to a private one.

But it's fine to contribute nothing and expect it.

Fuck that.

Totally agree.

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:38

@TeaMistress rhia so this weird ideology of entitlement that Britain has - almost everyone thinks like tbat

but the money is not coming from nowhere! It’s coming for current tax payers

the state should support someone who is unable to pay for themselves to maintain a minimum standard of living (if you believe in a welfare state)

if you are not in need why do you think current tax payers should fund you?

as said - the past taxes and ni you’ve paid are well gone - and you did not pay ii enough to fund the current pension

weathervane1 · 01/02/2024 23:41

Means testing for state pension would be inherently wrong. We have been encouraged for years to also save in a private or company pension on the understanding that the state pension wouldn't, on its own, be enough for a decent retirement. Many of us have done exactly that and taken responsibility for funding our older age, often at the expense of spending the money on holidays, cars etc now. Equally, a number of people haven't bothered to even save a small amount. Means testing would suggest that those of us who had separate private pensions might be expected to live solely off them, despite having paid into both schemes (via NI and taxes for the state pension); whilst people who haven't made the effort to save or even paid much by way of NI, will be in receipt of a state pension. It smacks of changing the rules from "contribute NI for 36 years and also have a private pension scheme to save for" to "contribute and get no state pension but fund those who don't have a private pension". I'm massively generalising but this will not be a popular decision and it wouldn't be unrealistic to suggest a high level of civil unrest.

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:41

It’s the ethics of it

britain weirdly lacks a common ethical belief that you should only rely o the state in old age if you need to

i don’t understand why people don’t want to aspire to not have to use the welfare state if they can avoid it

it is the ultimate in benefits entitlement! (Again. To repeat - the taxes and.ni that have been paid in are highly highly unlikely to be enough to fund a state pension)

Butterflyrainbow12 · 01/02/2024 23:43

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:38

@TeaMistress rhia so this weird ideology of entitlement that Britain has - almost everyone thinks like tbat

but the money is not coming from nowhere! It’s coming for current tax payers

the state should support someone who is unable to pay for themselves to maintain a minimum standard of living (if you believe in a welfare state)

if you are not in need why do you think current tax payers should fund you?

as said - the past taxes and ni you’ve paid are well gone - and you did not pay ii enough to fund the current pension

Sorry if I’m reading this wrong but are u saying that if you have a private pension u shouldn’t be entitled to a state pension? I’ve paid in my whole working life so far and I have a decent salary. Why should I not be entitled, yet Bob who sat at home scratching his balls on the sofa instead of working get one?

TeaMistress · 01/02/2024 23:44

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:34

@TeaMistress as with all benefits it should be a safety net when the worst happens

you have not paid enough in taxes in your working life to fund the state oension you expect unless you have been an extremely high earner

I beg your pardon. Did you just insinuate that only those who are high earners should expect to have a state pension paid because they have paid in enough....

I think its probably best that I not engage with you further on this as our views are entirely opposite.

NewKingontheBlock · 01/02/2024 23:45

Sorry if I’m reading this wrong but are u saying that if you have a private pension u shouldn’t be entitled to a state pension? I’ve paid in my whole working life so far and I have a decent salary. Why should I not be entitled, yet Bob who sat at home scratching his balls on the sofa instead of working get one?

Yes can you explain how this would work @Hmmmmaybe

WhathappenedtoLeo · 01/02/2024 23:45

@weathervane1 But is it that a lot of people merely couldn’t be bothered to pay into a pension…or couldn’t afford to?
I’ve also never had fancy cars or holidays, but I do only have enough really for my mortgage, bills, living and dc

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:47

@weathervane1 and to be honest that is why Britain is failing as a state and a society

because there’s such a fear that there might be money going around that you don’t get

a means test properly and fairly imposed would not mean what you propose at all.

the state pension should Provide a basic level of support that would be less desirable than the lifestyle that could be funded privately

all of this works in Australia well. People expect to take responsibility and fund their own retirement whilst understanding that for some
thisbmay not have been possoble
and these people should receive a welfare payment much as someone in theirs 30s who is unable to work because they’re I’ll should be

again - I repeat - pensions are funded by the taxes of current workers. Why don’t people want to minimise the amount they are taking de
these other people as an ethical position ?

StarDolphins · 01/02/2024 23:47

It’s the fact that we were told we were getting a state pension. You pay NI, you get pension, that’s how it has been. So now to change it to ‘only the ones that haven’t worked or saved anything get it. If you’ve saved & done without then spend your savings’. It would go down like a lead balloon if it was stopped or means tested.

Had it have been clear when I started work at 16 or even years later, then yes. At 49, I want what I’ve been told I would get!

Moier · 01/02/2024 23:49

@HHmmmmaybe

Who did l fund then when l paid my taxes?
The pensioners before me.. and they paid the pensioners before them ..
My Mum passed away age 62.. she had two years of pension..

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:50

@TeaMistress no that’s not what I’m saying.

im saying that the amount f taxes that you’ve paid in during your working life are highly unlikely to have been enough to pay for the pension you are taking now

the system is an unaffordable ponzi scheme

it simply doesn’t work - and there will be a pint where current tax payers can’t afford to pay all former tax payers

asrarpolar · 01/02/2024 23:50

Most peoples private pensions are not enough to replace state pension.
If they make it means tested loads of people like me will just cash in our private pensions and retire early then claim the state pension.
Private pensions were sold to people like me when young as a top up to a state pension.

Hmmmmaybe · 01/02/2024 23:51

And yes I understand that this is what people have been told - that’s why I say it is a total and utter public policy failure