Question about ambulances?

[Bookist]

Have got 'Ambulance' on in the background right now. It's clear how strained and under pressure the ambulance service is.

The senior paramedic is en route to a call of an elderly man, found not breathing and cold in a care home. But before he arrives he's told the elderly man is definitely dead.

So, why does he continue on to the care home anyway and then has a chat with the care home owner about the deceased man's habits, and also what will happen now he's dead (it's a care home so surely this can't be a new experience for them?).

As soon as the paramedic was informed the man was already dead why wouldn't he be immediately diverted to another emergency? Does anyone know?

Providing emotional/grief support to family/carers/other healthcare professionals IS part of a paramedics role. Empathy and compassion are part of every multidisciplinary healthcare role. Sometimes that may involve sitting and talking to them with a cup of tea after the event. If you think stopping that kind of support is going to save the ambulance wait time crisis, you've got a lot to learn about healthcare.

My mum passed away when I was out of the country. My 90 year old dad is deaf and can't use the telephone. He had to bang on a neighbour's door who rang the ambulance for him. They came out and tried to resuscitate even though it was obvious it wouldn't help. They moved her somewhere more comfortable so dad could sit with her, called me (abroad), called the funeral home, filled in a shedload of paperwork then made dad a cup of tea and a sandwich before they left. I'm immensely grateful they were so kind and caring and didn't just rush off to the next call.

No, I don't think stopping the cup of tea and chat after the event will save the health service. But I do think it will likely save the next emergency patient having to wait a further 30 minutes in pain etc.

This happened to me last year.

We were due to start having carers the day he died, they turned up and pronounced him dead and then the district nurse turned up and was able to sign off the death because a doctor had visited in the previous seven days.

The carers were great, they cleaned him up and put fresh pyjamas on him, then left it for us to call the funeral directors. Funeral director turned up within the hour and took him away.

It then had to be signed off by the coroner because the doctor that had visited had gone on holiday and only he could sign off on the official death certificate. The coroner then had to call me to confirm that DH had been very ill and expected to die and that I had no concerns about his treatment. Although, to be honest, even if I thought any medication had sped up the process, I wouldn't have said so. It was a relief that he didn't suffer too long.

No, I don't think stopping the cup of tea and chat after the event will save the health service. But I do think it will likely save the next emergency patient having to wait a further 30 minutes in pain etc.

The number of paramedics stopping for a cuppa and a chat is minimal compared to the number of people waiting for ambulances. There isn't just one issue - too many people and far too few ambulances/paramedics/space in A&E, people calling for an ambulance when they don't actually need it, people calling for one who could actually get to the hospital a different way.

Just to add to that, I've been in an ambulance sat outside A&E for an hour simply because there was no space currently available to go inside. So those paramedics were sitting around for that hour, they couldn't go to the next call until they were free.

Yes, I get that now. I just didn't realise that paramedics would also do stuff like make a cup of tea etc. When my Dad died at home (expected) somehow the doctor arrived before the paramedics, so they didn't even come in the house, let alone put the kettle on and chat etc.

@Bookist why don't you become a paramedic then. You seem to think you can save the service yourself by limiting the scope of the role. Go ahead and prove it.

In my granddad's case, I think because he died at home, police also had to attend to confirm it wasn't suspicious, even though he was elderly and had had a heart problem for decades. I'm not against this - I can see why they'd want to check - but I was surprised. But yes, I'm pretty sure my parents had to phone round funeral homes.

When my DF died, I'm extremely grateful that the Paramedics were able to spend time with my DM until the Police arrived (sudden unexpected death) as my DM was on her own and that they no doubt chatted to her about DF and made her a cup of tea. The Police officer then stayed with DM until my DB arrived (he was 1 1/2 hours drive away) even though DFs body had been removed. Thank goodness our emergency services are able to take the time to provide compassion. The issue is 1)not enough capacity in the hospitals b) not enough ambulances/paramedics c) not enough adult social care leading to point a. These are all caused by years of underfunding and poor management/administration of the NHS (partly due to firefighting). I don't see that the solution should be short changing the public in the Carr and compassion they provide. And I say that as someone who had to frequently call 999 for a family member and even 10 years ago waited up to 45 mins for am ambulance on a Cat 1 call (after they shut our local ambulance station to make the service more 'efficient ')

The patient isn’t always dead so they need to check. They also need to complete endless paperwork and phone through to be able to leave the site. The workers at the care home can provide most of information for the forms. Sometimes they need to treat others at the scene as well. It all takes time.

I'm listed as my Uncle's next of kin so I presume I would have to arrange everything which is fine as his partner is very elderly. I presume I wouldn't have to see the body though, I could wait outside until they arrived, let them in and then leave?

I was witness to an accident where a gentleman was rushing to see his wife at the hospital having been told it was last few hours.
He hadn't a clue what was in front of him, he even tried to drive off after he'd hit two cars and a road sign. The police said it wasn't the first accident they'd attended in similar circumstances.

I'm much younger and a decent driver, but on the way to see my mum in her final hours I have never been beeped at so often on the road. And I thought I was concentrating.

Certainly in my area of Surrey, local undertakers have an 'on-call' rota.
They will be called to collect the deceased & keep them until the family decide which undertaker they wish to use.

When my mother died in her care home, luckily the on-call undertaker was one that we had a plan with so there was no phoning around as we had already chosen.

She was receiving palliative care & both the district nurse & GP had popped in earlier in the day - both were already at the home for other patients - so there was no need for an ambulance. We just had to wait for the on-call doctor to come in & pronounce her death.
Amusingly, she died at around 11pm but the doctor arrived at 2.30am & pronounced her the day after she'd died.
The registrar was happy to take my word that she had died the day before...

Slightly hysterical over reaction there.

You've started a goady thread on MN to slag off a paramedic providing a back level of emotional after care. But I'm the hysterical one? Sure OP sure.

No, it was a genuine query because times have clearly changed since my Dad died and I didn't realise this is something that paramedics do nowadays. No slagging off or hysteria from me.