If you work in education, what do you think is causing the current attendance issues?

[NeedAnUpgrade]

I’ve read quite a lot on this recently. DD1 is 10, she’s always been reluctant to go to school. She had a spate of UTIs, stomach aches, headaches etc. She’s had a bit of time off sick but we only triggered the attendance letter recently as it went below a certain threshold. DH and I have always done our best to get her into school, being reassured that she’s ‘been fine all day’ by her teachers. It all came to a head this year (yr 5) after a complete meltdown, several anxiety attacks and refusal to leave the house. She’s now on a reduced timetable at school and on the waiting list for an ASD assessment.
Academically she’s ahead but just can’t seem to cope with the school environment.

I’m just wondering what those who work in education think the issues are. Am I just a terrible parent? Although I’m not sure what else I could do. I suspect a complete lack of funding in education has had the biggest impact on schools and students. Especially those with SEN.

Agree. An excuse for everything amd anything

I agree with this. Coupled with the fact that lockdowns suddenly made it an option.

God yes!!! No schools for academic ASd. This is a minefield of discrimination!

They are just ignored. American statistics show 1 in38 kids are ASd. And l think roughly a third of children with ASd don’t have intellectual impairment (?). That’s approximately 12% of the school population being ignored and not receiving the right education. It’s disgusting.

I wish there was a shit hot discriminatory solicitor who could pick this up.

I agree with a lot of what is said and I sympathise we are yesr 6 and starting back on a second reduced timetable.

far too much rigidity for a start and I think a look at how we split education.
the US system (which others use) for me makes much more sense primary reception to 4 middle 5-8 and the high school 9-13

years 5-8 are crucial and having them limped at the end of primary with SATs and the start of high school where it is overwhelming makes no sense. Move them at 5 start teaching them more than primary can offer and move into the start of formal learning esrier

I’ve had this conversation several times - I’m sure you could point to changing attainment over time but then it’s measured differently so kind of meaningless - when I was a child in the 80s the school couldn’t care less if you went on holiday. You just filled in a form. Possibly got given a book to read while you were away! I was at secondary school in the 90s and while the teachers were certainly strict in terms of paying attention in class etc, it was rare you had a phone call home or a detention. I’ve had phone calls about running in the corridors, minor uniform issues, detentions are 10, 20, 40, or 60 minutes and there aren’t many kids who haven’t had a few of these and then the teachers spend loads of time managing these, chasing them up, phoning home.

Sorry that was a reply to @Naptrappedmummy

Sounds like your DD would benefit from changing schools

Providing your child with an education is compulsory- school is not.
This is in the education act -this is a quote from home schooling organisation education otherwise - you can provide your an education otherwise than at school.

This is just silly. No one wants their DCs to have conditions. I was in massive denial about DS2 having ADHD. He wasn’t diagnosed until secondary school, which was a mistake in my part. It’s easy to say it’s just a way of labelling naughty behaviour but when you actually see the symptoms on a page being manifested in real life and the ways in which there are clear and obvious differences between NT and ND children, you can’t make silly sweeping statements like yours. The difference now is that there is greater awareness. The issues have always been there, as any number of people who had bad experiences because of undiagnosed issues and is now an adult will testify.

Yet the school expects parents to comply with teacher training days - early finishes and strike days !

Yes and no (in my opinion). Greater awareness will have increased the numbers however there seems to be a slightly gaslighty narrative around behaviour of kids in school years ago. There have always been ‘naughty’ children but nothing like the level of poor behaviour we see now - experienced teachers of 30+ years will tell you this. There has either been an increase in the incidences of ND conditions, or we are misdiagnosing children because their symptoms mimic ND conditions (I don’t profess to know which). I’m sure people did fly under the radar years ago but if there were truly this proportion of ND adults the behaviour would’ve been consistently poor, whether there were front facing desks or not (and there wasn’t when I was at secondary 20 years ago). Because although schools have changed, the basic elements are still there.

'Feel like your in jail'?

Don’t have time to read the whole thread, just OP’s posts.

I am only concerned about children with “severe” or “persistent” absence. I am concerned those have gone up since Covid. The NHS bottlenecks are largely to blame, as well as adult mental and physical health and poverty. We now have almost 24% of children on FSM nationally! That is shocking: “23.8% of pupils are eligible for free school meals, up from 22.5% in 2022. This represents over 2 million pupils”. https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics

OP I have personally come across children with your DC’s profile. Academically gifted with underlying SEN, dual exceptional. Parents of those DCs who have sought a private diagnosis recently and then insisted on the school’s help have had the best outcome. You need to sort it this academic year, as soon as possible, if you are financially able to do so. Secondary school will be much harder otherwise. The selective mutism, in particular, needs addressing as well. Have you had any speech and language input? Again, once you get the NHS’ attention, they are great. But stuck on some waiting list? Do whatever you can to sort it yourself, if you are able to.

As regards all children being failed or schools not working etc. This is far from the truth. Some state schools are incredible across the board. We have had great experiences. Small church school followed by superselective grammars. I cannot fault them at all. Good pastoral, good support, no rigid rules, great extra curricular. The press just pick up on the bad stories. The same applies to the attendance issues. It is best to ignore the news and just focus on your own child and do whatever you can to support them. If you can get an EHCP sorted and select the right secondary environment, do it.

There’s multiple issues from what I can see.

1- parents are generally older and age increases risk of SEN and we are seeing an increase in SEN kids and no resources for the increase. Lots of sen kids in mainstream and they shouldn’t be. This is either because there aren’t special school places or parents are insisting on their clearly struggling child staying in mainstream.

2- lack of consistency of staff and higher staff turnover doesn’t create a stable school environment for the more sensitive kids. They are crashing and burning when previously they wouldn’t.

3- higher rates of single parent families and families without any external Support such as grandparents. Older parents often have older parents themselves and require care rather than being able to give care to kids. Children who have both parents and multigenerational support often do better.

4- higher rates of none English speaking kids in some schools. This makes teaching incredibly hard and

5- both parents have to work so fewer parents can volunteer in schools to do reading or helping PTA. Our working to survive lives now doesn’t foster a school community.

6- lack of school funding for appropriate staff including support staff. Overworked staff can’t dedicate the time to struggling kids in ways they would like.

7- lack of funding for resources

8- kids having earlier and earlier unfettered access to the internet and social media

9- parents not appropriately screening media kids watch or play. No your 10yo shouldn’t be playing 12/15/18 rated games. No they shouldn’t be on YouTube without supervision.

10- this imo is a bigger one.

there is no longer anything for tweens and teens!
we had mizz, smash hits, alive and kicking, top of the pops etc. we had TV shows made just for us (BBC’s kids drama like Tracy beaker and the worst witch) and as we got a bit older we had the fabulousness that was buffy and the cringy Dawson’s creek. We got make up and products aimed at us as teens. Boots 17 was for teens (so glad they’ve bought it back!) We had teen specific clothing shops like Tammy girl, Claire’s isn’t what it used to be. We had our emo/goth phases, we all were a little bit weird and uncomfortable and were allowed to experiment and reassured it was normal. We had music subcultures and youth clubs.

tweens and teens now don’t have any of this. They have dubious influencers pushing adult products at them forcing them to grow up way too quickly. Many kids these days still believe in Santa whilst watching adult influencers telling them they need x product. Which is why we saw 10 yos writing the extensive influencer Xmas lists last month. 10yrolds don’t need fucking skims underwear.

These poor kids don’t have the transition from child to tween to teen to adult in the way we did.

and covid really really fucked them over. Mine was a tween pre covid and came out the other side expected to be adult like but not having had the social experiences kids should’ve had that help shape them into functioning humans.

Shinyandnew1 · 15/01/2024 12:48

I think the curriculum is overfull which makes for a lack of flexibility and no time to talk to children about how they are, what’s wrong and to reflect. I would rather in the primary years, there was some wiggle room to focus on breadth of learning and consolidation, rather than memorising facts.

The lack of funding and Ofsted have meant that staff are leaving in droves and the ones who are left then have to pick up the pieces so are more stressed and unhappy. Most teachers in my school are on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication; this is not good. Unhappy staff and stressed children doesn’t make for an ideal learning environment.

Reform the curriculum.
Seriously alter Ofsted and its impact.
Sort out school funding-so that we can support all children, including those with additional needs and pay staff a decent wage.
Sort out the workload expectations in school so that staff stay.

Look at what children don’t like about school-ask them what is causing stress and unhappiness. Try to find ways to stop that, rather than making some poor overworked teacher or TA be a mental health ambassador and make them responsible/accountable for the wellbeing of everyone in the school without any money, time or resources to change the system.

This with bells on. This sums up everything I could have said having come home from work (teacher) having completely broken down (I have only ever had time off after a MC in 25 years of teaching). If the adults in school feel so stressed and distressed, how can our children be happy in school. I’m so pleased mine are out of the school system. I fear for the future of education.

You persist in ignoring the fact that -

1. The curriculum is different.
2. Special schools have closed since you were in school forcing children who should not be in mainstream to be in the mainstream classroom.

You didn't see ND children in the classroom (at least not ones with major behavioural problems) because they weren't there!

As a ex teacher and now a mum - I’ve been on the other end and sent my child in and he’s got worst - before I’m jumped on he’s not had a temperature but been under the weather to be told he’s got a cold or a cough - so has everyone else ….. as a teacher i used to find the working parents had more trouble as they often commuted in leaving teen in bed who overslept and then thought I can be bothered with school- hard when your not there

And yes the narrative of schools being less strict years ago is

Corporal punishment anyone? Teachers who could smack and scream at you with impunity? At our school detentions were handed out with abandon, our skirts were measured with rulers and we were told we looked like prostitutes (those exact words) if too short. There were zero adjustments for anything, ADHD was seen as a newfangled thing for boys who were naughty and drank too much fizzy pop. There was no understanding of personal circumstances, when I was having a hard time at home with social services involved (school knew this) I was taken into the deputy head’s office and berated until I was in tears because I hadn’t handed in homework.

I just don’t recognise these laidback schools where there were few rules and a laissez faire attitude to education, they certainly didn’t exist for me. But maybe others do?

I’m not saying these factors didn’t account for some of it, but in my opinion not all of it. It doesn’t have to be just one thing. There are 2 or 3 ND kids per class now (anecdata!), so around 10%? I don’t think 1 in 10 schools were special schools back in the 90s but I’m very happy to be corrected as I’ve never seen any actual figures

As someone who teaches in the adult education industry, I can say that we have a hell of a lot more mental ill health related issues that affect attendance than we did 4 or 5 years ago. I think COL crisis and the fact some of us are still trying to manage life after COVID (think loss of jobs, credit card debts, ill thought out loans etc) are having an effect. As a parent of 2 school age DC, I have definitely seen an increase in genuine illnesses caused by more severe things, both bacterial and viral than I saw a few years back. They just seem to have F all immunity now!

There is still a lot of very poor behaviour, but luckily this is getting less bad as he moves through the school as more classes are taught in sets by ability.

Finally, someone else who recognises that mixed-ability teaching doesn't work!

I have pondered if covid resets or partially resets our immunity in the way catching measles does. Which is why everyone seems to be getting so sick all the time.

though it’s also highly like the stress of the pandemic and subsequent issues are impacting our ability to fight infections and the functions of our immune systems too.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia#:~:text=Eventually%2C%20measles%20ends%20up%20replacing,all%20other%20pathogens%20are%20forgotten.

All needs a total overhaul. It’s a patched up Victorian system that has evolved over the years. It’s not working for pupils, teachers or society. Just hope the next government will be brave enough to step in and sort this out. The majority would support it.

I think the big difference is that their mothers were likely left and ignored and that doesn’t happen now.

Thinking back to my schooling (I’m late 40s) I can recall three “bad” kids who regularly sat at tables outside the class or at the back of the class and the teacher didn’t include them in any work. They were just ignored and nobody cared if they achieved anything as long as they weren’t disrupting people. In hindsight they have closed ASD (one I know is now diagnosed).

One lad in my school, in the year above me, had a permanent desk outside the HT’s office. He wasn’t allowed out at any playtimes and wasn’t allowed on any trips. That would never happen now.

Teaching all the teens in one class is ridiculous. In Germany they separate them out at primary. As long as there is fluidity so late developers academically can move between schools that’s got to be the way forward.

Forty years ago the charismatic working class head would take the non academic lads out of French and they would do building projects round the school with him. Would never be allowed now but they loved it learned practical skills and how to behave on a building site and enabled the more academic kids to learn in peace.