What am I doing wrong with DD.

[losingmymindmama]

I feel like 4yo DD hates me, I've lost my lovely little girl and the relationship we had and I don't know how to get it back.
I feel like all I do is shout, she doesn't listen to a word I say, everything is met with attitude or she just does what she wants to do no matter what I say. She's so angry and anything I ask her to do ends up in her lashing out, hitting, punching, biting me. She laughs while she's doing it, and if I react she laughs more, if I move her away from me/ move myself from her she follows while in hysterics and carry's on lashing out, if I try to restrain her she bites, I feel like a punch bag. I put her in her room and she starts screaming and breaking stuff.
I've spoken to nursery and they have no issues what so ever, she's a dream there and with everyone else. We used to have such a lovely relationship then it's like a switch flipped and something changed.
I've read all the books, listened to all the pod casts and nothing works. I'm stuck and I don't know what to do. What am I doing wrong. Help.

Oh. That's so sad for both of you.

Can I ask what books you've read? So many are full of conflicting and confusing proposals. How to Talk So Small Kids Listen is so good for this age and these sort of issues. I also found The Explosive Child hugely instructive.

What prompts you to shout or starts her anger typically? I know one mum and daughter with an incredibly bad dynamic that has continued into teenage years. They both love each other but neither of them can shake off their negative ways of engaging with each other. I don't think it would take much at all to reset them but they need to want to change first I guess. But it's great that you're trying to get this back to how it was.

Don't know if this will work for you but I found it was my children bouncing off/reflecting my energy. So I'd have one on one relaxed enjoyable days where I tried to say yes as much as possible, remove the battles and let them choose activities etc wherever possible. It will pass x

@Legoroses Thankyou so much for your reply. I have read how to talk so little kids will listen but hadn't heard of the explosive child so I will definitely give that a go.
Usually what causes me to shout is when I'm at the point that nothing is getting through to her and she's hitting/punching/kicking constantly, this can come out of nowhere because I asked her to get dressed for example. When she starts I tell her that I am moving myself away because that hurts and she then starts screaming/crying and the lashing out ramps up because she doesn't want me to leave the room. I just have no idea how to get through to her it's like she's glazed over when she's in this moment, if I sit there and tell her I'm there when she's ready then I'm a human punchbag and if I leave the room or move away it just gets worse so we get stuck in a horrible cycle and I end up shouting which I really don't want to do.

Oh that's so sad I would be so upset if this continued into her teens, I'm so so close to my mum and would love that with my own daughter.

Thanks @thismummydrinksgin I do try to do this too, we have had a great day today went to soft play and McDonald's because that's what she asked to do today but as soon as she's asked to do something she doesn't want to do, like tonight get pjs on, then all hell breaks loose and there's no getting through.

I have always had the firm line that I will not be on the receiving end of physical violence so if they go that way I just removed myself and they could scream themselves blue. I am nobody’s whipping boy. They generally blow themselves out and then grew out of it ( caveat: SEN may be at play which you may want to explore).

Do you think anything external has happened? As you described it as quite a sudden switch?

I know this is probably super tedious to do but for those moments when she doesn't want to get dressed, could you do the super silly approach? Like 'oh, poor hungry sock really wants to eat your delicious looking foot'. I know it's a pain but it can, depending on the child and the circumstances, help to break that grumpy attitude cycle. You need to be in good form yourself though!

@Legoroses nothing has happened that I can think of no, she occasionally will have a really emotional day if something has upset her at nursery but she is able to talk to me about it when I ask her. These episodes? Are different to that and she usually can't vocalise what she's feeling or why she's lashing out it just is out of the blue sometimes. with asking her to get dressed setting her off, she doesn't it most nights no problem but the occasional night it's an issue like tonight.
I definitely need to try and get my head in good form and be a bit less stressed myself that would help a lot, I think I'm just a bit exhausted with it all now that I'm in a cycle too.

This website might be of interest, OP:

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/

Did she have a stage of the terrible twos? Because my older son was fine in his twos and then hit that stage more like 4. It did end gradually.

The only thing I really learned about how to cope with his tantrums was genuinely just to back away and ignore totally till they ended. (Assuming we were somewhere safe, I mean.) When DS2 then hit that stage at 2 1/2 I do remember he had a huge tantrum while we were visiting London, I just held my breath and waited. There was a taxi rank right there and every single one of those middle aged men smiled and waved and thumbs-upped me as if they remembered their own DC going through that stage. It is a real thing and it doesn't necessarily hit right at 2.

Thankyou @ProfessorPeppy I've never heard of that before but a lot of it resonates, I will have a read through tonight

@athingofbeauty she was an absolute dream until about 3.5 tbh so no we didn't get the "terrible twos" like I fully expected to, maybe this is just a bit of that.

I am absolutely no expert - mum of one, so this is pure anecdata.

I think this is the age when they have a massive shift in understanding, and start thinking 'oh! Mummy is allowed to tell me what to do! But ... I'm a person too - I want to call the shots!'

Nursery is different because there's a hierarchal relationship there. But at home, she's suddenly thinking 'wait ... why do I have to do what mummy says?!' My DD did (and does) a ton of what sounds like really rude backchat along the lines of 'but you didn't ask my permission to do that!' or 'but I told you to sit down and be quiet, mummy!'

I found for us the only thing that worked was more hours in the day. So if she needs to do something, you tell her what to do, then you leave her to do it. You keep coming back to remind her/help her out, but you keep calmly going again. (I got so much ironing done during this phase! Having a job to do while I was going away from her kept me sane.) And at the same time you offer distraction ('right, once you're dressed you can help put the laundry on!' 'when you've finished putting on your socks I need someone to help with this cooking'.

But also, remember she probably isn't meaning to be naughty. She may well just not be able to articulate what's going on in her head.

My Dd was angelic at school. Kind quiet, polite hardworking and helpful.

Tasmanian devil at home. Later diagnosed ASd.

She needs boundaries and discipline. Being gentle and talking things through on the spot isn't working, it's bringing out the worst in both of you. Stop trying to do everything the books say.

I recommend time outs, but even more I recommend finding a technique that you believe in and will follow through on. TO gives my son time to calm down and reflect on his actions, and then we talk about what went wrong, make up and carry on. I know we're all obsessed with being gentle etc but you've got a fiery kid who wants to show you her power - she's not going to respect you as an authority unless you show her you know how to be in charge. Kids want to be in charge until they actually are, and then they're overwhelmed and act out; gently but firmly take back control. I bet she's a lovely girl. Nip this in the bud now, show her you are in charge and get your relationship back on track.

They'll be doing time outs and similar at school, after all, and if she acts like that in ten or twenty years at work or with a partner she'll soon know about it. Gentle parenting only gets you so far without boundaries.

What are the consequences for her behaviour?

When are you shouting? Just when she is aggressive, or throughout the day?(no judgement,just trying to get a clearer picture).

How do you present your requests? Does she get any warnings?

I agree - except I don't think boundaries/discipline can't be 'gentle'.

You can say 'right, this must be done by the time I've finished ironing - I am setting a timer for five minutes'. Or 'OK, you are angry: I am going downstairs and when the alarm goes, you can come join me with your socks on.

(Can you tell my DD's issues are around clothes?! )

I think at this age they need boundaries and guidelines, and for your sanity you need not to be constantly 'on' them. She might use three of those five minutes to have a private stop about how awful you are - ok, who cares? If she then takes two minutes to come downstairs having done what needed doing, then it's a win.

At school or nursery, they have far more kids to deal with, so they don't have time to stress about one child not doing as they're told immediately. They are judging whether most of the children do what they're told within a generous time frame.

(NB: This is do as I say not as I do, because OMG I get so stressed with DD on this one! But I do notice things work better when I give her loads of time and a clear directive.)

Of course you're exhausted, OP. Is knackering at the best of times.

Just to flag, that if the PDA stuff is ringing a bell, go very cautiously before applying the firm boundaries advice. It may be great for NT kids but might not be right if you think PDA might be near the mark.

I have a lot of sympathy for the idea of the late terrible 2s! Definitely think there is a big cognitive jump around 4. Weird stuff like death enters their minds. Just really try to be kind to yourself, OP and stress less about as much of this as you can.