> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

This! 15 years ago we couldn't afford to have 2 DC at nursery together and so had a 4 year gap

Both me and ex worked opposite shifts. Nursery was optional but we chose 2 days enrollment only.

We stick to one child. Disappointing yes, but I'd rather be able to afford the one I have than struggle with two.

I asked - 'for those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?'

I accept if I have another child, it will cost me this much. It is a lot of money though, hence asking about it.

I think it's entirely reasonable to think it's a lot of money and think it will be a painful couple of years - it's 80% of a £100k salary.

I personally think it's extraordinary that it can be so expensive tbh - other countries seem to be able to provide far more affordable childcare.

Sorry if I missed it, but what's the daily rate? Is there no full-time discount, and sibling discount? From your calculations I'm thinking it's about £115/day with no discounts? That's total madness. We're home counties and it's £70-80/day.
Also, bit off topic, but with 2 little ones I suspect you won't want to work full-time ;-)
We have 3 children but spaced out. We both have big career type jobs, high earners, but I've just gone part-time. My oldest is almost 9 and the time has passed in the blink of an eye. Be careful you don't miss it.

Do you not have any family that can help with childcare?

I think you might benefit from speaking to a financial advisor.
You're obviously a high earner and as a result it may be beneficial to you to look at doing things including:
Making additional pension contributions to reduce your taxable pay (which then may entitle you to free hours).
Reducing your hours (for the same reason as above) and because it would reduce the overall nursery bill.

There are other things you can do to reduce your taxable pay and therefore perhaps entitle you to free hours.

It might also be cheaper (and probably more flexible if you have an inflexible job) if you:
Looked at getting a nanny (or a nanny share).
Considered a childminder
Got an au pair - perhaps just for the older child while the younger one is in nursery.

You can also likely cut back on aspects of your lifestyle. High earners usually have more expensive lifestyles than others due to 'lifestyle creep' (bigger house, better area, nicer cars, Waitrose groceries, more expensive clothes, higher end hairdressers, holidays to nicer locations/better accomodation etc.). Looking carefully at where you can save will also likely free up quite a bit.

However, as others have said, many (most?) parents can't afford to have two in nursery at once and so either have one child or space their children out so that the eldest is in school or nearly in school by the time a second baby might need childcare.

As it sounds like your child is either in nursery or soon to start I'm guessing they're already about 1 (or older) so will be starting school no later than Sept 2027. As a result you're really only talking about having a second when you're 37/38/39. That's really not old to have a baby - especially in London and especially if you have a successful career.

We managed by timing it so baby arrived just before my eldest was 4. It meant we could afford to keep him on 3 short days at nursery (we got 30 hours though) while on mat leave and then I was back at work just before the big one started school. I was 38 when second arrived. A grandparent has the little one once a week and I compress my hours so I have a day off with them too. It’s a juggle!

Gosh this thread is both super interesting and very stressful!

For the people with sky high childcare costs like OP, what would/have you done if a second pregnancy resulted in multiples? That was all I could think of when I read it!

God that's absolutely absurd. I'm a SAHM but when I was working I wasn't even earning half of this, so we would never be able to afford me returning to work. The system is so broken.

and FWIW it isn't just a recent issue having DC later. I was 35 with my first and 39 with my second and am firmly Gen X

The fact was we couldn't afford to have 2 DC in childcare. That's all there was to it

@MidnightPatrol Take a look at the government website https://www.childcarechoices.gov.uk/ You can enter your and DH salary and dob of kids and it'll show you exactly what you're eligible for now and in future. For example, are you aware that from next year you will get 15 hours free for babies age 9 months plus?

Also, double check your nursery fees. You've put £2,300 for the 3 year old and baby. That would be unusual. Normally it's about £10 cheaper per day by 3 years than for babies.

There's no fixed upper limit on a nanny share any more than there's any limit on how many of your own children you're allowed to look after at once. It also obviously depends on the ages a little bit.

In practice, I'd say an experienced nanny can manage up to 5, especially if the older ones are school aged. My nanny had 5 for periods during the day during her tenure with us. However, things are simpler financially and practically if it's 2 from each family.

Childcare is a huge cost but it's not forever

Ive last said it's wrong that people get taxed on salary before childcare is taken off

How far over are you over £100k. Can you put extra into your pension to get under £100k

Start saving now while you can

Put away what it would cost you if paying for two to try and get a nest egg

Would you take off a year ml or go back after a few mor he

If at home for a year then can cut nursery costs and use a pre school once 3

How near to the 100k limit are you? Can you overpay your pension to take it under and be eligible? Are there 2 of you earning?

This is quite a weird question - whether you cope depends on how much you earn! If youre asking for alternatives I would look at moving to an area with cheaper nurseries or travel to one of those areas for nursery + the shared nanny option. Where I am in London nursery fees vary between 1200-1700 full time. Were zone 3 but someone a few stops further in on the tube could definitely get a kid here if they needed to for a cheaper nursery place. Or take an extra year out of work after mat leave.

@GreatGateauxsby holy moly, £9,500 outgoings a month?

I'm guessing similar childcare + same sized mortgage?

Can you do salary sacrifice into pensions to bring salary below £100k? Some workplaces allow you to do quite a lot through salary sacrifice - bikes, cars, healthcare etc, it depends how much you are over the threshold by.

sympathies though, it’s all wonky when compared to Sweden etc

One of my colleagues, a rising star in her field has two under 3 babies. Her salary is no where near enough to cover the nursery fees so she has chosen to move back to her native Estonia where the nursery fees are €90/month.

🤔oh yeah, I'm sure OP has a young sprightly retired DM or MIL just around the corner positively dying to do childcare whom she just inexplicably failed to mention. After all, who doesn't have family members living close by who don't work and are totally willing to do regular childcare?

If I had twins as a second pregnancy I would get a nanny, just no question, at that point that's the best option from a financial standpoint.

I have a friend who had twins who can't go back to work as the cost of childcare wildly outstrips any benefit of working. It's very frustrating!

Completely agree that better support for childcare costs, better parental leave support etc should be there.

However as long as we perpetuate that "it makes sense" for the lower income to give up work we are perpetuating lower incomes for women. I've lost count over the years of the number of hiring managers who discriminate against women based on assumptions around their fertility and likely childbearing or the fact that they have children. No amount of legislation has stopped this, nor has banks of research showing women make longer term loyal employees.

The only way this will change is if we demand to go back to work at least where the overall household income supports it .

We also need to vote for governments which actually put women's rights in the middle of their programme and stop voting for another round of "when the time is right", "other priorities" or that favourite old chestnut of ingrained misogyny - "women will get trickle down benefits due to spending on children and old people" (aka - women know your place, stick to caring if you want anything).

The workplace nursery scheme is interesting; you salary sacrifice too pay nursery fees pre-tax.

Anyone had any success with this scheme? I have never even heard of it.

Amazed it is not more widely known of, if its as good as the website suggests?

Yeah we don’t want more than one for this reason. It might change but I can’t see how we’d ever make it work with both of us working. Unfortunately. We couldn’t afford £4k for two, that’s literally all of our household income after tax. Every last penny

DH is a shift worker in the NHS and I work a 9-5 which is quite flexible and involves some WFH. I think we’ll make it work by paying for a couple of days childcare. Then for the other three days, me condensing my hours to have a day off, DH putting in a flexible working request for a day off and the 5th day I can work from my mum’s house while she has them as she has offered to do this. No way would 5 days of paid childcare be viable.

My first thought was if your employer would consider offering childcare vouchers which have a tax advantage and lower the cost.. but I think you'd need to check the most up to date regulations. https://www.employersforchildcare.org/parents/family-benefits-advice-service/

The only other option I can see is depending on how old your DC1 is, You could keep working during maternity leave for no 2... that's 7-8 months. then maternity leave...( maybe ask for extended) then perhaps working part time until the older one starts school attached nursery, which for us was mornings from age 3 and then full time reception from 4 ish with Year 1 at 5..... depends on their birthdays tho, adding in paternity leave if possible and perhaps working from home for part of the time or a registered childminder to help just with pick ups/drop offs (often there's one at the school who will fit them in), plus any ad hoc help from family, might help you juggle things so the bill is not as large overall.

It was the hardest time but once they are in school it becomes much easier. In some ways it is better to have the two close together and get it all out of the way. so you can stabilise things. Although I admit there are pros and cons to this. and it epends on your individual circumstances.