> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

I gave up work 4k would be more than my teaching salary

I had a 3 year age gap so the dc1 got the 30 hours funding. We also used a childminder - she was fabulous and cheaper than nursery, and grandparents helped 1 day a week too.

Nanny share. The cost will be similar but a nanny is so much better in many ways (illness, kept late at work etc).

We have a 4+ age gap - had DS1 aged 35, DS2 just before I turned 40. Also meant my second three month maternity leave could be used to help settle DS1 into primary school before I returned full time. Two at nursery would have been £2500 and that was 13+ years ago so we wouldn't afford that.

I'm confused...
Here, in the Midlands at a well respected nursery/preschool 0-4 its £65 per day. Which is 1300 per month.
Who in their right mind would pay £225 per day? Or allow themselves to be ripped off to such an extent?

I can guarantee they are nor paying their staff 3-4x the rate that's paid here...

I agree with a pp, my experience as a childminder I’ve only ever had 1 full time child over the course of 15 years. They did 8-6 with me 5 days a week. Every single other child has done 3-4 days a week. 3 is more usual than 4. Full time hours 5 days a week is very rare in my experience. So I also am surprised that you need 50 hours per week childcare.
personally, I wouldn’t want to do those hours. I like to balance my work and my own home life, and so my children don’t have other children around all the time. I prefer 3 days a week, and that doesn’t impact my work because most people are only looking for 3 days a week. I would consider dropping a day and seeing if that can help all round.
i also only know 1 mum who has gone back up to full time hours after her children have started full time school. Most mums I know and have experience of work part time for quite some years, but you will still have the option of going up to full time once the difficult and expensive part is over.

It’s over £2200 per month for one child, 4 days (8-6 max) at our London nursery.

We both have “good” jobs but neither make 6 figures.

Spending up to £4500 per month to send two children to nursery would be impossible. We couldn’t just “suck it up”.

We didn’t want to compromise on family structure in order to stay put.

So… We just had baby number two. And we have just left London.

Mums do generally go back part time statistically but some mums like to stay full time for several reasons and take the hit short time financially but benefit in the long term financially too.

They hardly sound like professional qualified nannies

And sure op doesn't want to be up for tax evasion which carries a possible
Prison sentence

How much over £100k do you both earn? You’ve had lots of suggestions of increasing your pension contributions but you haven’t seemed to have explored this? Are you both extremely high earners - in which case, you must have other outgoings you can reduce such as; reduce holidays and day out.

Are you a single mother?

It really depends on your income OP. If you can just about afford it, then buckle down and save other things - holidays, food shop quality (less meat, more vegetarian), start saving now to create a financial cushion, one or both of you work towards a payrise to offset the rise in fees. If you are determined to have a second without waiting, then it's short term pain fo long term gain.

@MidnightPatrol , this all sounds absolutely bonkers 😥

I just can’t believe that the government isn’t acting more quickly to help. The UK has a declining birth rate and too many economically inactive citizens. Surely the answer to both issues is to provide subsidised childcare from the end of maternity leave to enable women to return to work and contribute to the economy? Yes, it would cost money but the mums who are able to return to work would then be paying more in taxes etc.

I really hope you find a way through.

Can you make yourself eligible? Dropping a day on a temporary basis, increased pension contributions etc. Depending how much you and your partner are over the threshold by this might be a viable solution and allow you to claim 30 free hours per child.

If you have an extra bedroom, I'd consider an au pair. We did this and pay £150/week + food; babysitting is extra (£5/hour). You need to be very selective (obvs) which might be time consuming but in the long run is great for the children, family and for your bank account.

If you have the option of a second child and potentially could afford 4K childcare costs this must reflect that your household income is already kinda healthy and potentially yours and the father of baby number 2 careers are going ok

May i congratulate you on your continued fertility choices and freedoms

Alongside the financial success you are qualified to maintain for the growth and prosperity of all of the aforementioned .

@MidnightPatrol are you sure you're not entitled to free hours?

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/01/02/when-apply-for-15-hours-free-childcare/

I'm making the assumption you also have a partner due to planning a 2nd child. If you both work and one earns over £100k I'm assuming that's why you're not eligible for free hours.

In which case, if you genuinely can't afford it despite being on such a high income tour choices are:

• Lower earner reduce hours at work towards childcare costs
• Wait until one child is in school to have another child
• Reduce your living costs by cutting back on things like subscriptions, take aways meals out etc.
• Look into a child minder as they tend to be a little cheaper.
• Move to a cheaper area with lower childcare costs

I know it sounds a bit harsh but I'm just trying to be pragmatic. Childcare is expensive, that's why they've introduced the free hours, but unfortunately some sacrifices have to be made.

Is an Au Pair (sorry if that's spent wrong; I'm massively sleep deprived) an option?

Just to say although we now have the right to request flexible working, our employer has the right to turn it down. I put in a request in 2021 with the view to drop a day which would comfortably put me in the 30 hours bracket. It was initially approved and then retracted with 3 weeks to go as ‘it was too busy’.

The only way I managed to get 4 days was to take a more junior role during a restructure. It is skull numbingly dull but I get to see DC. Currently trying to find a new job (head of level which is where I was before dropping a day) and as soon as I mention 4 days a week the recruiters all but hang up on me. I’m only applying for firms that outwardly say they support flexible working and yet this is their response. I’ve had to accept that I won’t be able to get the sort of role I had before DC all the while want to work reduced hours.

Oh and DH also has flexible working in place to wfh 2 days a week so he can also do school runs etc. Weirdly his employer was super chill about it.

But those are choices. If OP has made that choice then she needs to pay for someone to look after her DC if she has chosen to work instead. It's quite simple really.

I paid a nanny in cash when I had 3 in two years.

How other people afford it is a bit irrelevant, people have different priorities, incomes, flexibility with work and budgets etc. The question Is whether/how you can afford it, and what you are prepared to sacrifice to be able to afford it: your career trajectory, aspects of your lifestyle, or the size of the family?
I didn't work when I was in London and my kids were small as I would've been working to pay childcare& travel to work plus about £10 a week. Not worth it, and I loved being their primary carer. I met loads of private nannies at baby massage and baby signing etc who never appeared to be earning the early 2000s equivalent of over 50k. And later, I changed career, retrained when the youngest got her free 15 hours, to do something really stressful but that worked better around childcare. Now they're grown up I have switched to low stress homeworking (and taken a salary cut) as I got burned out.

Yes I couldn't believe someone suggested that either; especially given that ivf is far more expensive too!

You make it seem she has a choice to stop working. Maybe she can't afford to?

I’m in London and I was in a similar situation. Fortunately, I have a brilliant childminder who gave me a great deal and I only had to pay £1400 for two a month for 4 days a week. Do you qualify for tax free childcare as that then brought the cost down too. Don’t forget you’ll get free hours sooner for both kids now too.