> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

Conversely, I also currently live in a different European country and pay €2300 a month for my nearly 1yo to attend full-time nursery. Luckily my 5yo is in school!

I've not read the entire thread, but please don't delay having a much wanted second child as some PP are suggesting. Totally the wrong call.

So fed up of hearing women being told that 35 isn't old because all their friends had babies at 45. Scientifically, your fertility absolutely does start to decline. Statistically, the older you get, the harder it is to have a healthy pregnancy. And if you encounter secondary infertility, you'll have limited yourself with regards to how many options you have remaining and how long you get to try to combat said fertility issues.

Sorry - I know I've not answered your question, but needed to say this!

Yep crazy right!?!?

mortgage is a bit less but then there are the bills and insurance and food…

my DH is really focused on how rich we will feel once they are in school 😅😅😅

a lot of people in my work are in the same boat and they are either just choking it down and getting on with it like me…

OR they are getting help on the sly 😅 …usually from their parents.

It took me a while to realise this but if you listen quite carefully you pick bits up.
holidays are paid for (that’s £4–8k) extra curriculars are paid for… private schools are paid for… cars are upgraded “as a present” as the “family is growing”

These are couples already making good money who still feel the benefit of extra help…
the whole situation is nuts…

This surely assumes everyone can work 9-5 though?
(meant to quote the poster who said to move out of London and commute)

I feel your pain!
I stayed home for 2 years with my second child.
Obviously one thing is living in London. But the nursery charges are mind boggling!
We now live in Cornwall ( Somerset before) and for 2 kids wraparound school childcare for 2 days a week is around £400 per month. ( with a childminder)
I realise that's cheap but still.stings.
I have had to decide to stall.my career for many years to come and work part time.
For me personally that is okay as I really wanted 2 kids and that is the price.
I guess if you can manage to suck up the cost for 2 years and it will get better when they get older?

OP - So we currently have 2 in nursery in London. Our bill before any support is £3,800 for 4 days a week which is reduced to £2,900 once 30 free hours for eldest and tax free childcare is taken into account. For comparison my take home pay is around £3,400 a month. My husband earns more.

We are lucky to qualify for the support given we are both good earners. I am on about £56k for 4 days a week and my husband is on around £85k.

It's all a stretch and we are eating though savings we have built up but we are OK with that given it will be for a relatively short period in the grand scheme of things. When my eldest starts school in Sept the costs will drop (though not disappear) and I may be able to up my hours a bit as well.

I laugh a little at people who say just plan for a particular age gap as if it's that easy. It took me two years to conceive my first so, at 35, we thought we better get on with things if we wanted a second expecting it to take a while again. But BAM - pregnant first month of trying second time round and so a 2 year age gap that wasn't quite the plan.

So basically we are just sucking it up for now, on the basis it won't be forever, but I appreciate we are lucky we are able to.

So true. at age 31 my fertility tests were ‘normal’ and I had so many follicles that were about the age of a 20 year old. Loads of high quality eggs and loads fertilised. It still took 5 goes of ivf to get a baby.

the tests don’t check for any implantation issues or anything generic.

in position of one higher earner and one much lower so not eligible for anything past 15h.
we did 2y6m and 2y10m age gaps so after Mat leave the next one up had funded hours, and then sent them to the primary school nursery. Even with the hours/wrap around top up it was cheaper than 2x nursery fees, and meant that we could reduce nursery hours on leave without worrying about getting them back in. IME the education is better too.

you do need a plan for school holidays, but it’s not like you can afford to go away with those bills anyway!

Another reason why the north is better 😂 Most people round here go part time after mat leave and have family around to do the odd day.

The only sensible comment on this thread. Well done for planning!

@MidnightPatrol Op seems to have just woken up to her 'situation'. Why?

Everyone who has had kids and wanted to work/study would have make clear plans and not be surprised like OP seems to be. Or is OP just venting at her lot?

@ReallyAgainReally I think most people are quite surprised by the high cost of childcare…? Half of the posters on the thread are surprised by the high cost, for example.

I only have one child. The objective of this thread is to understand what life looks like funding nursery fees for two.

That is planning.

@Jurassictrex you say the north is better - but tbh proportion of fees: income as a % probably not dissimilar in much of the country, even if the absolute number in London particularly obscene!

Plenty of people commute who aren’t 9-5, my ex worked for the met police but didn’t live there.
But if you are using a nursery you aren’t doing shift work….

Well, no. Many use Childminders. Many have a SAHP. Many have family help. A huge percentage of the country don't even earn as much as your nursery fees.

So not literally every 2 child family.

The website daynurseries.co.U.K. Gives a full time price as £15k per annum. That's £1250pcm

So it's not everyone.

It's a problem for yourselves, yes. I think the best answer you've had is for both of you to do 4 days compressed hours and have childcare for 3.

@GreatGateauxsby Yes I think a lot
of parents of preschoolers in London have the scarily enormous mortgage + double fees situation.

Seems insane people can be in the top 1-2% of earners and still be spending 80%+ of their income on housing and childcare.

You will feel absolutely loaded when they go to school - try to think positive…!

I'm in a similar situation, we did everything we could to reduce the bill:

• we left London for a commuter city (childcare is 16£/h)
• I pay more into my pension to reduce my adjusted income
• i work part time over 4 days (minimal reduction of income since it's taxed 40% anyway, and we don't have to pay nursery on that day)

My adjusted income is now just under the threshold so we get the tax-free childcare and will get the free hours.
For two kids we pay just over 2.5k a month (we're not eligible for free hours yet).

It’s the housing cost though isn’t it. Lots of SAHM round here because it’s easy to live on one wage.

We ended up with a four year age gap which we had roughly been aiming for - in part due to not want to be paying two lots of nursery fees (this was pre 15 hours funding) but also so we weren’t getting two lots of exams at same time, nor two at uni at same time for the same reasons as not wanting two at nursery.

I guess we were younger than 35 but not much and I was def among the younger of my mum friends in London at the time.

doesn’t help your situation but does answer the avoiding a £4k nursery bill point.

I only have one, but the only thing that kept me sane was thinking it's just temporary! I paid nursery fees for more than 4 years and I feel your pain. To be honest I am not surprised by the fees. We used to pay around £1500 for the baby room 4 years ago and we ended up paying £1400 for the preschool room last year using the 15 hours (always full time Mon-Fri).
One year or two is not that bad, and perhaps you can take the full year off on maternity leave? If so, maybe you could try to reduce the days your eldest is in nursery during that year?
Then after 3 (2 now? not sure...) you get 15 hours free, which helps a little.

I agree something has to change but I’m not convinced putting very young children into full time childcare at the taxpayer’s expense so their parents can work long hours is the best solution. Maybe employers could be more flexible with working hours for parents and carers (male and female), even those in senior roles.

Until you get swept up in the whole 11+ thing and decide that you want to send your kids to the top London day schools for secondary.
Then you start paying £4k+ per month in school fees 😉.
Despite my DH and I earning very well, I don’t think I’ve ever felt loaded living in London with kids, there always seems to be something else to bloody pay for.

@MidnightPatrol Maybe it is planning to you. But you also say you don't have space for a nanny, whilst also saying if you got twins, nanny is the way to go.

Planning is getting an adequate property for family needs- or did you just work out now that 'stamp duty' costs would wipe out any benefits of a move? etc etc etc

Yours just sounds like a rant. Or maybe I am surrounded my responsible parents as have never met one without an ironclad planning before 1st child.

The only sensible thing you have said here is to reject advice to freeze- that's correct and a sensible choice. Good luck.

@Pookerrod Oh I am sure there are parents who already have the tutors in twice a week to prepare for 4+ entry.

Hopefully I can avoid private school fees. I’m not sure I can cope with that level of outgoings for 20 years.

I was a bit surprised to find childcare would cost me the equivalent of attending one of the big name day schools…!

How old is your DC now OP? I did have a look but couldn't see that you'd mentioned it.

And how long did you take for mat leave - and would you take the same length of time again?

Just wondering whether a very slight delay in going for your second child coupled with a long mat leave might cover the bulk of the childcare and only need you leaving a nursery for two children for a short period.

The only question I would have is whether you've planned for after school care and holidays? If nursery places are so extortionate in your region then I imagine after school and holiday child care is going to be pretty hefty too.

I think the issue is whether you can ACTUALLY afford it, but are just nervous about such high costs - or whether it could cause financial difficulty/leave you without any financial resilience?

I know you want two DC but with the situation you describe - working in such an expensive area, no affordable childcare, no local family who can support (presumably), no do-able alternative options such as changing jobs or moving home - honestly, I think you have to consider whether having another child is actually viable.

I know the nursery fees issue is only short-term, but you need to be sure you can make it through those years unscathed, plus afford the ongoing childcare for school holidays, after school etc for two children. Only you know how this could affect your finances.

FWIW, I have twins and it absolutely killed me financially because there's bugger all extra help for multiple births. You have my sympathy as it's a tricky one. But sometimes it's worth stopping to consider whether having another child could actually jeopardise the stability and security of your family. And what if you fall pregnant with twins? The risk increases as you get older. What if the second baby has a disability/health condition and needs more care than a regular child - can you afford that? My twins both have a disability so I speak from experience. You never think it will happen to you, until it does.

Sorry to sound so negative - I just have been through the process of desperately wanting another child before realising that actually, it really wasn't fair or practical. And that's a very hard decision to face up to. Might not be the case with you, but it's worth thinking about.

@ReallyAgainReally

• Not all nanny’s are live in
• If I had three children (twins), I would get a nanny as it would be cheaper than three nursery spaces

No I did not consider getting a property with an additional flat to house a nanny. Terribly poor planning on my part - or maybe I’m not a multi-millionaire? Who knows.

Id do childminders, there usually between £4 and £7 per hour.....