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I don’t get holiday pay!

89 replies

Whynoholiday · 08/01/2024 09:46

I think I need some good advice.

I live and work in a small town and part of the week I work for an independent shop 18 hours a week. I love the shop and get on well with the owner, so have been there 5 years despite the terrible pay (minimum wage) and zero hours.

Each January the owner reduces the opening hours so I don’t work there until asked back around mid Feb/ Valentines. This year has been especially tough for me, my own small business has taken a nose dive in the last 18 months, I’ve accrued debt and last year made a claim for UC.

Talking to my friend at the weekend she asked me if I would receive holiday pay for this time off. I’ve never had holiday pay! I’ve never taken holiday😭 I never take any time off, apart from two bouts of Covid when she wouldn’t want me in anyway.

Is there a clever loophole she’s found to duck out of paying me? And if not how should I broach this with her without losing this job?!

OP posts:
Summerishere123 · 08/01/2024 18:05

All my staff are on zero hours and get holiday pay. You get 12.07% of the pay you accrue.

FishTheRiver · 08/01/2024 18:14

I'm excited for you OP, you will be able to get some back holiday pay/paid holiday from this. I think you can go back two years.

Definitely don't do anything until you have spoken to ACAS. You might want to go to an employment tribunal.

I'm assuming you aren't a member of a union.

There is a Gov.uk. holiday pay calculator link HERE. I put you numbers in and it's maybe going to be just over 100 hours for EACH of the last two years.

Your employer will know what they are doing. They've effectively been stealing from you.

Good luck and please let us know what happens. I'm interested!

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 08/01/2024 18:16

tired17 · 08/01/2024 09:52

Even if you are on a zero hours contract you should be accruing holiday pay as a percentage of your hours worked, so it may not cover the whole period but there should certainly be some holiday pay

This completely. As you are on NMW and no proviso is being made regarding holiday pay (most zero hrs contracts it's worked into the hourly rate) she is breaking the law.
You can get anonymous advice from ACAS

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:19

beanii · 08/01/2024 17:17

Holiday pay is based on the number of hours you've worked in the few weeks before the holiday.

You should still get holiday pay even though you're in a zero hour contract.

Contact citizens advice

The pay reference period did use to be 13 weeks, but now it’s 52 weeks.

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:20

baileybrosbuildingandloan · 08/01/2024 18:16

This completely. As you are on NMW and no proviso is being made regarding holiday pay (most zero hrs contracts it's worked into the hourly rate) she is breaking the law.
You can get anonymous advice from ACAS

Employers can’t include it in the rate any more, or do anything that comes under “rolled up holiday pay”.

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:22

Summerishere123 · 08/01/2024 18:05

All my staff are on zero hours and get holiday pay. You get 12.07% of the pay you accrue.

The 12.07% calculation is no longer allowed. You have to base it on the average as per my previous post. Please check this out because you’ll end up owing them back pay.

emmetgirl · 08/01/2024 18:29

Yes you should be getting holiday pay.

beanii · 08/01/2024 18:38

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:19

The pay reference period did use to be 13 weeks, but now it’s 52 weeks.

Ahhh okay, didn't realised it'd changed - thank you for that.

She'd still be entitled to it though

beanii · 08/01/2024 18:39

Whynoholiday · 08/01/2024 09:46

I think I need some good advice.

I live and work in a small town and part of the week I work for an independent shop 18 hours a week. I love the shop and get on well with the owner, so have been there 5 years despite the terrible pay (minimum wage) and zero hours.

Each January the owner reduces the opening hours so I don’t work there until asked back around mid Feb/ Valentines. This year has been especially tough for me, my own small business has taken a nose dive in the last 18 months, I’ve accrued debt and last year made a claim for UC.

Talking to my friend at the weekend she asked me if I would receive holiday pay for this time off. I’ve never had holiday pay! I’ve never taken holiday😭 I never take any time off, apart from two bouts of Covid when she wouldn’t want me in anyway.

Is there a clever loophole she’s found to duck out of paying me? And if not how should I broach this with her without losing this job?!

Get her to back date it for the time you've worked there or report her to ACAS.

I don’t get holiday pay!
DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:39

beanii · 08/01/2024 18:38

Ahhh okay, didn't realised it'd changed - thank you for that.

She'd still be entitled to it though

Deffo!

Sureaseggs44 · 08/01/2024 19:03

Definitely call ACAS and have your contract and payslips with you . They are very helpful .

Cloverforever · 08/01/2024 19:27

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:20

Employers can’t include it in the rate any more, or do anything that comes under “rolled up holiday pay”.

Are you an HR professional @DuchessPotato? I'm not sure you're up-to-date.
I've just copied and pasted this from the gov.uk website.

For leave years starting on or after 1 April 2024, employers will be able to use ‘rolled-up holiday pay’ for irregular hours and part-year workers.

Cloverforever · 08/01/2024 19:32

DuchessPotato · 08/01/2024 18:22

The 12.07% calculation is no longer allowed. You have to base it on the average as per my previous post. Please check this out because you’ll end up owing them back pay.

And this, again copied from thegov.uk website:-

Leave years starting on or after 1 April 2024 Employers will need to use a specific accrual system to calculate leave for irregular hours or part-year workers. This is regardless of when they started their job.
The amount of leave will depend on:

  • how often they get paid (their ‘pay period’)
  • how many hours they worked in a pay period
Their entitlement will be 12.07% of the hours they worked in a pay period, rounded up or down to the nearest hour. For example, if they worked 35 hours and are paid weekly, they’ll have earned 4 hours leave (35 × 12.07 ÷ 100 = 4.2245). If their leave year begins before 1 April 2024, employers do not need to use this system until their leave year renews.
Iwasafool · 08/01/2024 19:34

Whynoholiday · 08/01/2024 09:57

This is what I have always thought too. However, looking at the Gov page yesterday even casual workers get holiday pay as a statutory right?

Yes you are entitled to holiday pay.

calishire · 08/01/2024 20:01

I haven't read through the whole thread but yes, you are entitled to holiday pay. This can be paid differently by different employers. I do casual work and I have one employer where i accrue the pay and then request to take the days and get "paid holiday. The other employer pays me 12% (I believe or similar amount) on top of whatever hours I've worked and this is my holiday pay. If you aren't accruing pay, I'd check your payslip as it may be that you get a bit extra for holiday pay as per my second example.

userxx · 08/01/2024 20:07

@Cloverforever so the 12.07% calculation is still allowed? What's this rolled up malarkey ? I should be googling this.

Cloverforever · 08/01/2024 20:13

userxx · 08/01/2024 20:07

@Cloverforever so the 12.07% calculation is still allowed? What's this rolled up malarkey ? I should be googling this.

I am not an HR professional (before "somebody" comes along to question that) but yes, that's what i've been led to believe by our HR advisors.

The rolled up pay is to do with receiving holiday pay as part of your hourly rate, rather than being paid for time off. This hasn't been allowed but it looks as though that's about to change.

Sehz · 08/01/2024 21:08

You should definitely be receiving holiday pay! I run payroll for a company in the leisure industry and everyone accrues holiday pay relative to the hours they work - even casual weekend/school holiday staff.

userxx · 08/01/2024 21:17

@Cloverforever Thanks for confirming 👍

Catrinka · 08/01/2024 21:27

I wish people would just refrain from
commenting rather than giving out incorrect information, especially in a matter as important as this.
but I’m glad you have received some correct information now OP.

yes, zero hours staff are absolutely entitled to holiday pay.

The “old way” was that most employers just paid an additional 12.07% in salary.

The law then changed when a music teacher went to tribunal / appeal etc and won (Harper Trust V Brazel)
The new law was that part year workers (which zero hours would be) are entitled to the full 5.6 weeks holiday and holiday pay was based on their average earnings over the previous 52 weeks.

This has again changed, from April , going back to the 12.07% for companies whose holiday year is April - March.

whichever calculation applies to you , ultimately you should have received holiday pay.

If you feel able to, you could try and resolve this informally for example “Hi X, I have become aware that I have not been receiving any holiday / holiday pay. Given I’m not currently required to work, perhaps I could be placed on annual leave during this period and receive my holiday pay” You can then discuss previous years and how this will be resolved.
You would be suprised how many small business owners don’t know the basics when it comes to employees - holiday included- she may not actually know.

If this doesn’t work, or you don’t feel comfortable, speak to ACAS.
This is called “early conciliation” where they will call or email the employer to let them know you are potentially making a claim for holiday pay. If you get a good ACAS advisor, they will tell her that yes she should have been paying this.

if she has any sense she will pay you what you are due as they absolutely will not win a tribunal !
early conciliation usually lasts six weeks. If payment is made to you, you will be asked to sign a document called a COT 3 which basically means you agree the matter is settled and can’t take it to a tribunal. If you remain employed, she does need to then make the correct holiday payments going forward - the agreement can’t stop her doing that.

if she is an idiot and you get no settlement at ACAS after the 6 weeks, you will be issued a certificate that allows you to then submit a tribunal claim. You would be claiming for a breach of a statutory right.
The second she gets legal advice about your claim, they will tell her what an idiot she is and tell her to settle with you rather than attend a tribunal that she cannot win 😂

Do pursue this. I know so many people who don’t as they “don’t want to make a fuss” but this money is absolutely your right so please don’t give this up.

Ladyritacircumference · 08/01/2024 21:43

Do you have an actual contract of employment? Do they pay your tax and national insurance? Or, are they putting you through the books as a freelancer or casual labour? Freelancers are not entitled to holiday pay, or sick pay and have to attend to their own tax liabilities. It would be worth checking what your contract actually says.

Cloverforever · 08/01/2024 21:45

Thank you @Catrinka, that's just as I understood it (i'm in charge of working out holiday pay at our small company, so just as well!)

Redlarge · 08/01/2024 21:50

I dont either. Havnt since been in this job for 6 years. Im not zero hours.

Howmanysleepsnow · 08/01/2024 21:55

You are legally entitled to 12.07% of hours worked

Redlarge · 08/01/2024 21:56

Howmanysleepsnow · 08/01/2024 21:55

You are legally entitled to 12.07% of hours worked

I need to ring acas. Ive never had a paid holiday in 6 years. If im off or its a bank holiday. I just dont have any income that day.