Doctor strikes - how can a resolution be reached

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/06/settle-nhs-dispute-or-thousands-with-cancer-could-die-early-say-health-chiefs

It appears that there a real tangible reductions in cancer care due to industrial action. If introspection is now critically affecting patients how do we remove the crisis. Are juniou r doctors pay demands realistic and if they can't be met do we accept that we will have future disrupted service.?

I feel of the juniou r doctors get a significant pay rise nurses will soon start striking again so this is a real headache for government with ultimately patients losing out.

It's a headache that successive governments have brought upon themselves. It has been a big issue for a long time and it is sad that patients have to suffer for Joe Public to pay attention. Pay is only one element of why junior doctors are striking. The other huge issue is the inhumane working conditions they have to deal with and which put patients directly at risk.

@RareApricity

is the solution to train more doctors or possibly import from abroad?

It's not as easy as just increasing medical school places. There needs to be enough capacity in the system for more senior doctors to train the ones coming through in hospitals and this is already very stretched. As more doctors are leaving because of the ridiculous pressure they are put under, the situation is exacerbated. The UK is becoming increasingly less attractive as an option for overseas doctors for the same reason.

Easy. Pay them what they want and deserve and try to improve their working conditions. Make starting pay comparable with Aus and Canada.

Hello journalist
Photo for your article for whatever shitrag you work for.

The solution is to make it illegal for them to strike and also to make it a condition of training to be a doctor that they must pay back the cost of their training £250k if they work abroad ol

I guess is there a point when striking is unethical if it leads to poker patient outcomes as the striking is superimposed on an already struggling system. It would be good for a resolution to come about but maybe we have to expect the strikes to continue until the election? Maybe it will be Labour's headache?

@RareApricity .

Do you that for need consultant places where the job and a significant amount of training time in it? I agree that training is paramount but taking away staff to train means less patient time so you would need to square that circle?

Who would choose to train to be a doctor with those ridiculous constraints? It's unattractive enough as it is. You sound like you don't actually want people to train to be doctors. What do we do then?

I don't know what you are trying to say. They are trained in real life situations in hospital wards and theatres.

They already do have to pay it back when working abroad so don't worry you aren't losing out on some cash. Make it illegal for the NHS to strike and more will leave for other jobs or to work somewhere that values them.

We need to be realistic of what we can afford as a country. It might mean higher taxes, fees at point of use or for premium service or a poorer service. But something has got to give other than NHS staff. Yes senior nurses and other HCPs are likely to be next especially as each of the last two pay rises has focused on the bottom of the pay scales so the gap I.e reward for the stress of being a senior nurse etc is getting less and less.

Pay them comparably to Oz, ROI and other European countries? It’s not rocket science.

Can you see any possible risks in your approach?

Pay them fairly. There is no other answer.
They aren’t going to give up and nor should they.

Pay them properly. Get back into negotiations asap.

But it's a huge exaggeration to say their working conditions are "inhumane". Hyperbole like that does not help.

Also stop the NHS or USA system comparisons. The NHS may be free but it's frequently shit. You only have to see all the GP threads to see that. I'm not blaming GPs but the system as it stands is not working for anyone.

Whine whine whine, it’s not about the money they say. Then take the fucking offer on the table. They may get somewhere near the 35% and they’ll be so bloody chuffed with their pay rise. But that doesn’t help any of the poor people who have suffered by their striking. They will be suffering long after Junior drs have got a pay rise.
Agree training should be paid back if they leave. It happens in lots of other professions.

What is the current offer; around 8%?

What are junior doctors paid - and how much to settle? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67876164

8.8% + 3%

The definition of inhumane is without compassion for misery or suffering; cruel. I stand by that description. It seems pretty accurate rather than hyperbolic. Are you a doctor by any chance?

They are still liable for their student debt if they leave the country, just the same as in any other profession. What is your point?

@Nitesaredrawinin they were suffering long before the drs went on strike and they’ll be suffering long after this is resolved….or not. This is all very convenient for the government….’junior drs cause final collapse of the nhs’. If they do ill congratulate them because the current running of the nhs is an absolute shit show that works for no-one (nhs consultant).

I work in the NHS and that is the issue, there is nothing in their training contract to tie them to the NHS when completed. They can freely go abroad or work for an agency earning mega bucks the day after their training concludes without any recourse.

They have had the equivalent of 8.8% already imposed and have rejected an additional 3%. I’m not sure why they think their pay has been eroded anymore than other NHS staff.

@RareApricity they aren’t liable for their training costs - in or out of the country- which is different from their student debt

I think one solution would be to link public sector pay to inflation in the same way the state pension is, which could prevent this situation recurring (a bit like the triple lock). Not just NHS.

As to the current situation, I think there needs to be some movement on each side, and it may need to be phased. Rightly other professions within the NHS might be frustrated, although there is variable pay loss across professions with respect to inflation etc. I don't know how to fix that. It's also true that professional costs have risen much faster than inflation (mandatory insurance, exams and courses), which probably disproportionately affects doctors, especially those still in training ('junior') and new consultants.

The point is it's already safe. The govt need to treat them with some respect and give proper pay restoration. And stop playing games