Will 30 hrs free childcare for 9mo+ actually happen now then?

[humpteenumptee]

I know everyone was sceptical about whether this would happen or not as it seems apparent lots of nurseries are already struggling to keep afloat and pay overheads as it is. Now that applications have opened for 2 year olds for 15 free hours does anyone think they are actually going to go ahead with funding it from 9 months?

We’re TTC and it would make such a massive difference to us - ie if we were successful this cycle we’d have an 11 month old by September 2025, when they’re supposedly bringing in the 30 hours for all.

I think the next government will scrap it unfortunately. No reason behind that thinking other than that I know a few people who run nurseries currently and they say they won’t be able to offer it to stay afloat. Hopefully I’m wrong, but I just can’t see how it’s going to work.

Not a chance in hell. Don't plan your finances around it.

Wouldn’t count on it

It’s not going to happen in my opinion. Even if it did get rolled out loads of nurseries won’t be able to offer it as the amount of money the government give them does not cover their daily rates or anywhere close so I just don’t know how feasible it is

No it's not going to happen. To be honest even the 2 year old funding codes mean nothing to most people as their chosen nursery isn't likely to be taking on younger children under the scheme.

Historically the amount of funding offered has been pitiful, however the funding rates that have been published don't look too bad to me. £11 an hour for an under two. £8 for a two year old. £5.50 for a three or four year old. Ratios in nurseries are one adult for three under two. One adult for four two year olds. One adult for 16 3 year olds if there's a qualified teacher.

Doubt it. Though we are eligible for universal credit now we pay so much in nursery fees and the funded hours wouldn’t make us any better off.

I assume that something completely different will be brought in, maybe a fixed subsidy for certain hours instead of pretending the hours are free.

The published rates aren't what the provider gets. The LA keep a percentage to "cover costs" and it also has to pay for pupil premium and various inclusion costs before the rates are given to providers.

I think lots of early years providers have been campaigning for it to be called subsidised hours rather than free hours.

1:16 is the ratio for 3 year olds? Is that for a full ten hour day?!

My mistake 1:13

It’s only 1:13 if the adult is a qualified teacher. Otherwise it’s 1:8, IIRC.

I am so behind the times. Now it's 1:5 for two year olds.. I'll check before posting next time!

It's now 1:3, 1:5 and 1:13

My nursery are optimistic that the funding looks better, but as PP says they won't get too excited until the local authority has announced the percentage cut they plan to take yet.

I don't think Labour will fund it. They haven't said they would.

It's not that easy to take back legislation and it has been legislated so I am confident it will go ahead. I expect that nurseries will put up their prices in order to subsidise the low government payment but I think parents will see some savings. Our nursery is planning to offer the hours and then work out where their fees will need to be to ensure they remain a profitable business.

Not many places will be offering it.
The nursery I worked in was already pared to the bone and it was ‘Outstanding’.

For example:
Toys and books were all from charity shops.

Snacks provided could be as little as a slice of apple or cucumber.

Nappies were stolen from whichever child arrived well equipped.

Quite frequently there were more than the legal number of children.

Quite frequently there were no qualified staff with the children. The manager counted herself on the staffing ratios although she was in a different building a distance away.

We often had power cuts.
Once we had no running water for three days.

Staff were often underpaid ‘by mistake’.

Sometimes everyone but one person was paid.

Once nobody was paid. The accountant ‘forgot it was the end of the month’ and went home at lunchtime without doing the wages. She refused to return and pay us. We were told we had to wait until Monday.

How can this be cut any further?

The nursery my child is due to go to when he’s 2 have said they will offer it and with no top up fees - they are a school nursery with an outstanding ofsted (and take from 2).

I’ve been very skeptical about the whole thing but like somebody else said another government are going to struggle to go back on it… at least the 15 hours for 2 year olds that will come in before any election.

I don’t really know how it works with legislation etc but it could be easier to go back on the 30 hours for all children as that won’t have come in by the time there’s an election.

Being legislated and being available are two very different things. I'm a provider and I don't have space to offer mine all the hours they are entitled to, and nowhere locally has any space for months.

I've had a recent influx of messages that don't even tell me anything about their requirements, they just say "hello when can we start to get your free hours".

Hundreds of new spaces are needed, when in reality, places are closing down daily.

This might be what the government pays the LA but they take a slice and settings receive less. Settings don't know the rates yet, there's still a consultation process.

One adult for 16 3 year olds if there's a qualified teacher

A qualified teacher will earn a lot more than an apprentice or than me (3 years since qualified, minimum wage). It's cheaper to use more cheap staff. Not to mention, the lack of qualified teachers who want to/ safely can handle 16 x 3 year olds whilst changing around 12 nappies.

I don't think it will, not for 9 month olds.
I think it's too late for them to cancel the hours for 2 year olds (and would look bad for Labour to cancel it soon after it starts), but I doubt it will extend down to 9 month olds.

I wouldn’t count on anything if the government changes, but it could be different or better or worse no one knows. I remember cons being voted in 11/05/2010, but the time my DD was born in August, they had reduced the CTF to £50 and abolished it by end of the year. That year I got tax credits, the year after, that level was abolished. The sure start one off payment was then abolished in April 2011 and the funding for all Surestart was reduced and that’s when they started closing them down. Im not saying any of this was bad or good it was just what happened. If they want to make changes they can quickly.