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NHS weight loss ‘help’ is a scandal

273 replies

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:27

I have insulin resistant PCOS but I’m not diabetic, I just want to share my experience of asking for weight loss help.

I have (obviously) tried every diet, way of eating etc etc going, so in desperation I went to my GP and asked for some help to lose weight. I was referred to a weight loss service provided by an external supplier and was reassured they cater for people with diabetes and metabolic health issues like PCOS etc.

Anyway, I attended a few meetings and alarm bells started to ring when I was presented with a work book and turned to the ‘what to eat’ page to find the NHS healthy plate which is a diet made up of 30-40% carbohydrate, very little fat and moderate protein.

In the next meeting, I asked the dietician how this advice worked for people who were metabolically buggered and a guy with T2 diabetes also chirped up and asked the same. The response was ‘well we suggest eating low GI foods for carbs’…. So I asked ‘low Glycemic index or low glycemic load? Because those 2 things are different and for people with insulin resistant conditions, it’s a very important distinction?’. She didn’t answer the question and then proceeded to say the advice on the course was for the general population and she’d put me in touch with her supervisor for these specific questions and I could talk to her.

Losing faith at this point, I emailed the supervisor as instructed and along with specific diet questions I also asked for the statistics on how many people reach A 10% weight loss during the 12 week course, and how many people go on to maintain that weight loss for 2 and 5 years. That I would have thought, is a very simple question. The email I got back was ‘we don’t keep those statistics and why are you asking please?’… eh?? This is a course being prescribed by the NHS and you don’t actually have any statistics or proof points that it’s effective??

So I emailed back, thanked her for her response and withdrew myself from the course.

Why on earth are the NHS paying external companies to provide a treatment with no proven track record in successfully delivering adequate care?? It’s WILD. The way I see it, if you approached your GP for help with an infection and they said ‘here! Try this tablet. It’s never been clinically reviewed or tested, it’s not really designed for people with your specific problem and we have absolutely no clinical evidence that it works but we’re paying this company a fortune to supply it to you’ it would be a national scandal.

We have an obesity epidemic costing the NHS billions and yet absolutely no proper treatment available beyond dietary advice that has seen an explosion in weight related health issues over the last 50 years, which incidentally is based on junky science in the first place and fails to achieve and sustain weight loss in 97% of cases. NHS healthy plate is basically the food pyramid, which in turn is based on research that’s been totally and thoroughly debunked for over 2 decades now. Even ‘body reducing’ advice from the early 50’s focused on reducing carbohydrate, why on earth are we still pretending high carb low fat diets are the answer for a population that is rife with insulin resistant conditions?

The other fun bit is I’d have access to much more tailored advice is I was diabetic. I’m not, and instead because I’m female and my insulin resistance has resulted in PCOS and not diabetes, there is no specific dietary advice available for me despite a low carb diet being the single most impactful way to treat PCOS long term (it’s standard practice across much of the rest of the world now).

We’re here because we treat obesity like a moral failing and actually have no interest in helping fat people, just in berating them and treating them like they’re idiots with no self control. It should be a national scandal and at the very least, we should be calling out external suppliers who have somehow managed to secure massive NHS contracts with zero proof their treatment plan is in any way successful for the patient.

OP posts:
AvengedQuince · 03/01/2024 07:32

I wouldn't expect to rely on the NHS for any non immediately life threatening conditions to be honest. I was on a waiting list for months with a dangerously low bmi. I had no choice but to sort it myself.

disappearingfish · 03/01/2024 07:39

It is awful, I agree. You sound like an intelligent, informed woman who can probably manage to access the right information to help you. But that's not the case with every patient and I worry about the people who are getting terrible advice that will make their conditions even worse.

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:44

disappearingfish · 03/01/2024 07:39

It is awful, I agree. You sound like an intelligent, informed woman who can probably manage to access the right information to help you. But that's not the case with every patient and I worry about the people who are getting terrible advice that will make their conditions even worse.

This is exactly my concern. I’m a research person and I love science but I know I’m not ‘normal’, and the average person is going to assume the advice they get given is correct and well researched, then blame themselves when it doesn’t work when the deck was stacked against them the whole time.

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Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:47

AvengedQuince · 03/01/2024 07:32

I wouldn't expect to rely on the NHS for any non immediately life threatening conditions to be honest. I was on a waiting list for months with a dangerously low bmi. I had no choice but to sort it myself.

Believe it or not my PCOS currently is life threatening. I have been bleeding continuously since October because my unopposed oestrogen levels have resulted in endometrial hyperplasia. I have a biopsy this week to make sure it’s not turned into endometrial cancer. Again this is something they never tell you about PCOS: it’s not just an inconvenient and embarrassing condition, it’s bloody dangerous to left untreated.

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tokesqueen · 03/01/2024 07:48

There's a twelve month wait for our local weight management service.
A two year wait for our newly diagnosed diabetics to see a dietitian.
We've been told to direct them to the local weight watchers or slimming world instead.

determinedtomakethiswork · 03/01/2024 07:50

Would a low-carb intermittent fasting diet work for you?

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:51

determinedtomakethiswork · 03/01/2024 07:50

Would a low-carb intermittent fasting diet work for you?

This is exactly what works for me, yes. I 16:8 and follow LCHF. Lost 5st in a year. I also have no gallbladder though so high fat can cause issues for me, hence asking the NHS for help with alternatives.

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JustanotherMNSlapperTwat · 03/01/2024 07:52

I also have PCOS and I was directed to the NHS weight loss service

I attended for one session where I was told I should eat up to 12 slices of bread a day so long as I avoided too much cheese

I didn't bother going back

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:53

tokesqueen · 03/01/2024 07:48

There's a twelve month wait for our local weight management service.
A two year wait for our newly diagnosed diabetics to see a dietitian.
We've been told to direct them to the local weight watchers or slimming world instead.

I was offered slimming world too. I declined given my relationship with food is already problematic largely as a result of attending both WW and slimming world in the past.

OP posts:
Patchworksack · 03/01/2024 07:53

You wouldn’t have access to better advice if you were diabetic. My husband is a diet controlled T2D and the NHS advice he was given was absolute shite and if he followed it he would still be diabetic.

LadyWithLapdog · 03/01/2024 07:53

You are right, OP. It is scandalous. I listen to the Zoe podcasts and I can see how much knowledge about nutrition is changing. I think it takes some time for this to get embedded in courses but, as you say, some of what was on your course is old news by now.

herewegoagainonmydog · 03/01/2024 07:54

Bloody hell. That's awful. That stupid eat well plate can fuck off too.

Ive has weight loss surgery and haven't had any dealings with NHS for weight issues since. When I did approach them years ago I was told to look at food and keep under 4% fat. Ended up eating the worst kind of processed crap.

Have you read ultra processed people? That's such a brilliant science based book.

oneflewoverthe · 03/01/2024 07:54

Some local boroughs offer 12 weeks of slimming world independently or via a gp. I found out how to apply by googling. Otherwise it's free to join at the moment anyway.

Tonight1 · 03/01/2024 07:54

☹️ you will have to go back to GP again

Dynamoat · 03/01/2024 07:54

I've been referred to dietician services many times as my DC have a number of allergies. Every time it's been useless. They just reel out leaflets and if you question them they know nothing. It's sad because you see worried parents waiting for months to see them in the hope they'll help, then be given a leaflet on avoiding dairy which suggests to eat soya, you say the baby can't eat soya and the dietician then looks nonplussed and just refers to the leaflet again in some kind of stuck loop.

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:54

Patchworksack · 03/01/2024 07:53

You wouldn’t have access to better advice if you were diabetic. My husband is a diet controlled T2D and the NHS advice he was given was absolute shite and if he followed it he would still be diabetic.

Same for DH who is diabetic too - told he can eat bread, pasta, rice etc as long as it’s brown….

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PotatoFan · 03/01/2024 07:55

I’m diabetic and BMI over 40, trust me you wouldn’t get more tailored advice if diabetic. I’m starting the same weight loss course just now, they tell us to eat plenty carbs and base it on the eat well plate too.

Throwaway0912 · 03/01/2024 07:55

Don't have anything useful to add but I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

The tired rhetoric of obese people being dim and lazy is outdated and frankly dangerous. We wouldn't tell a person with anorexia "just eat more" or someone with bulimia "just stop being sick" yet someone overweight, it's fair game to say "eat less and move more." The science behind obesity is fascinating, so many factors and hormones at play.

I wish you the best, insulin resistance and PCOS are horrendous. No advice, as I had surgery after decades of fighting against my own body.

soupfiend · 03/01/2024 07:56

Im amazed you managed to actually go to a club/class run by them. When I was referred the appointments were during the working week. I cant go to them.

Amberlady · 03/01/2024 07:56

It is a scandal that they are still trotting out such outdated advice, that was only ever a hypothesis, and not proven in the first place. And as if the last 50 years has taught them nothing. Whats the saying. Only an idiot keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

BadSkiingMum · 03/01/2024 07:56

I suppose the course is just aimed at the general population and you were mis-sold what it could do for your specific circumstances. Not great and your complaint should be with your GP, who clearly referred you without much knowledge of the course content.

I agree that they should definitely have data on the impact on participants at the end of the course (even if it was just qualitative data on what participants felt they had learned) however longitudinal follow-up at two and five years would be unrealistic for a small provider. They would need to employ a researcher(s) to manage the dataset, keep in touch with participants (some of whom would move away or not want to participate) and carry out the analysis on a rolling basis. Even then, you can’t show causation regarding the impact of the course and any weight loss…

I am guessing that this is a locally commissioned service and agree that this piecemeal approach is woefully inadequate to address the scale of the problem.

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:57

soupfiend · 03/01/2024 07:56

Im amazed you managed to actually go to a club/class run by them. When I was referred the appointments were during the working week. I cant go to them.

My first meeting was 2pm on a Monday for 2 hours Confused, but they ran online sessions on Wednesday nights on zoom which I ended up going to.

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headcheffer · 03/01/2024 07:58

The NHS uses private providers because our expectation that the NHS becomes the expert at delivering every single treatment for every single condition is part of the problem it faces.

The centrally commissioned programme has been evaluated and 94% of those who completed the 12 weeks saw an average reduction of 6.5% of their starting body weight. The statistics on the programme are held and evaluated centrally by NHS England, as you would expect for a nationally commissioned service.

The reason diet advice focuses on the Eat Well plate is because this is what has been rousted clinically evaluated. The remission research around Type 2 diabetes demonstrated that it isn't low carb that works but rather weight loss via any means.

Eating low GI foods as part of an overall balanced diet is the current recommended diet advice for PCOS - see the Association of UK dieticians website for this.

I fail to see what this service has done wrong for you? It's following the current recommended advice for your condition.

GreatGateauxsby · 03/01/2024 07:58

yanbu

i went on this course. It was appalling the nutritional advice was crap and the guy giving the course who worked AT A GYM was obese.

but I did get half price gym membership for 2 years

I was post Partum so lost about 6% body weight.
I then got pregnant so 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ve bumped into 4 or 5 of the group none have lost any significant weight.
one man is markedly fatter !

Metabolicallycomplicated · 03/01/2024 07:58

BadSkiingMum · 03/01/2024 07:56

I suppose the course is just aimed at the general population and you were mis-sold what it could do for your specific circumstances. Not great and your complaint should be with your GP, who clearly referred you without much knowledge of the course content.

I agree that they should definitely have data on the impact on participants at the end of the course (even if it was just qualitative data on what participants felt they had learned) however longitudinal follow-up at two and five years would be unrealistic for a small provider. They would need to employ a researcher(s) to manage the dataset, keep in touch with participants (some of whom would move away or not want to participate) and carry out the analysis on a rolling basis. Even then, you can’t show causation regarding the impact of the course and any weight loss…

I am guessing that this is a locally commissioned service and agree that this piecemeal approach is woefully inadequate to address the scale of the problem.

I would have expected them to know how many participants reached a 10% loss during the 12 week course though at least? They weigh participants weekly and record it so that should be data they own.

It was a national company so plenty of data to go off I’d have thought.

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