Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

(Toxic) Elderly father who cannot look after himself

45 replies

Remmy123 · 29/12/2023 23:03

My father is mid-70's / has been an awful father to us so I am struggling to help him.

He has neglected himself. Drinks x4-6 cans of cider a day. Smokes 20 a day. Doesn't eat. Type 2 diabetic. Not taking meds properly.

he keeps falling over and ending up in hospital. He has come out now but cannot walk. Collapses every week then refuses hospital when paramedics come. I have been to his flat several times, the carpet is covered in feaces. Urine soaked bed. Mouldy cutlery. Did some cleaning but needs a deep clean.

today I was there and I was almost sick and felt very faint i do not do well with this level of care / the man makes me sick to
my stomach but I am the only one that can help him.

I have no idea what to do in this situation. I have to go again tomorrow to return his clothes that I washed.

I have told him I can't come Monday to Friday asi work full time and until late.

what do I do he doesn't have much mone y but I can't leave him like this no matter how I feel about him

thanks

OP posts:
Gillypie23 · 30/12/2023 08:35

Contact social services and let them take over his care.

hattie43 · 30/12/2023 08:36

Social services and walk away .

Tbh his needs sound far greater than you can realistically provide anyway

ValerieDoonican · 30/12/2023 08:36

No-one could care for a relative in this state single-handed OP! He needs residential vare so there is always someone there.

If he has capa city to make a decision and refuses full time care, then he has capacity to choose to live like this. But that doesn't give him any rights to "choose" that you care for him.

As pps say, it's not your responsibility. If he isn't caring for himself, then that doesn't mean you automatically have to.

The important thing is to make it very clear to social services that you cannot look after him. It is his choice to live like this, he can't choose to make you care for him however.

If he is suffering from dementia too, then he may lose the option of choosing to go on like this, but I don't know how any of that works. I just want to repeat that no-one can choose that YOU have to go in and clean up his literal shit.

Lots of advice on the elderly parents board on this.

Porageeater · 30/12/2023 08:41

As PP have said phone social services and mention the word safeguarding if you are in England or ‘adult protection’ in Scotland. There are multiple significant risks here and he may or may not have capacity to make his own decisions. There is in all likelihood no magic fix to this but you can’t deal with it and the authorities should be involved.

tokesqueen · 30/12/2023 08:53

You're propping up the situation. Email social services and advise them you're now stepping away. Do absolutely nothing. Don't even visit.

reflecting2023 · 30/12/2023 08:56

Call the GP say he needs assessment- he may need a capacity assessment if he doesn't want to move / accept care

GoodOldEmmaNess · 30/12/2023 09:03

When he has an admission to hospital, do you usually attend? If so, on the next admission, make it plain that you will not be able to provide the necessary support for him to be discharged and that you have very serious concerns about his capacity to care for himself. In these circumstances the hospital staff may initiate their own referral to social services (which will reinforce the urgency of your own approach to social services). They may also have their own programmes of assessment/support for newly discharged patients, which will help him to become plugged in to whatever support is out there.

If you are unable to provide adequate support for him in the longer term, don't feel that you have to facilitate any future discharges by providing immediate practical assistance (such as driving him home, collecting meds, arranging and attending outpatients appointments). That will just create the illusion that he has anadequate family network, and will prevent the hospital from seeing how badly he needs further intervention.

StopGo · 30/12/2023 09:16

As he can't walk who is getting his cider and cigarettes? Perhaps they could be persuaded to stop or at least cut it down.

Social Services and Fire Service are excellent suggestions. Next time he is admitted insist on an occupational therapy home visit before discharge.

topnoddy · 30/12/2023 09:31

Social services if you are in the UK

When he is discharged from hospital do they think that there is someone looking after him when he's home ? If they do they need to be told otherwise

Tonight1 · 30/12/2023 09:32

StopGo · 30/12/2023 09:16

As he can't walk who is getting his cider and cigarettes? Perhaps they could be persuaded to stop or at least cut it down.

Social Services and Fire Service are excellent suggestions. Next time he is admitted insist on an occupational therapy home visit before discharge.

That's a good point, someone must be facilitating it

Remmy123 · 30/12/2023 09:33

When he last went in to hospital they offered him a daily cater and he said no!! But he is saying he doesn't remember having this conversation.

the paramedics come every few days he refuses admission now so they Check him over after he has fallen (usually a hypo from the notes I read)

I don't think he gets his feet checked

i was there trying to sort his meds out yesterday that were all over the place he has no idea what his meds are called just called to get them re ordered as he realised he has no meds for his diabetes- never checks bloods etc

he lives in a block of flats and his neighbour gets his beer (also a drinker)

he eats a packet of crisps a bit of chocolate and ciders

not even sure he brushes his teeth any more

the most depressing site

thanks all for your help and advice xx

OP posts:
SunnieShine · 30/12/2023 10:36

I'm normally all for making allowances for elderly parents - but DO NOT get sucked in to this bottomless pit. You've done enough.

coldcallerbaiter · 30/12/2023 10:55

So paramedics are there every other day, taking them away from or longer wait for other medical emergencies.

So for the first time in your whole life you call an ambulance for something serious,
remember there are people out there who use them twice a week selfishly.

Elleherd · 30/12/2023 11:02

Adult social services (ASS) for an 'urgent needs assessment', and if you are going to be visiting him when he is in hospital, then learn the words "unsafe discharge" and bang on from the beginning about how worried you are that this will be another one. If the flat is as grim as you perceive it, then every time he is sent back to it from hospital without them having seen it, is an "unsafe discharge" once they're aware. They should then send him to a hospital step down unit while social services assessments and potential provision is put in place.

These units where created to stop bed blocking while providing non emergency level medical care and rehab. They're intended to ensure cycles of ongoing medical issues ending in repeat hospitalization caused or exacerbated by a lack of needed disability/age related help, housing issues, mental deterioration, alcoholism, self medication etc, were broken.
Your father is an absolute candidate that they were designed to try and sort out holistically following acute medical intervention for one part of his issues only.

The hospital 'offering him a daily carer' will have been either a hospital OT or SW filling out a referral form to adult social services, saying they have assessed him as needing this help. He is automatically entitled to six weeks of carers as 're-enablement' (prior to financial assessment for it to be ongoing) if he was in for long enough.
If you don't want to step back, then I'd suggest working out which dept was assessing him prior to discharge, and getting in contact with them asap at the same time as contacting ASS. IME they can still issue this letter post discharge.

When talking to adult social services you need to be talking about how it will make the situation so much worse and how many more services will be needed if he ends up an amputee through all this. (Sorry if it's dispassionate, but it is the bottom line of it all for them.)

Additionally email/write to the GP. They can't discuss anything with you, but can try and sort out things like medication feet etc and provide valuable back up with adult SS once made aware.

As with all things nowadays, services are stretched and not everyone will or can do their jobs especially if he's handily providing them with refusal to engage or saying you will be helping him. Some will also write you up as able and prepared to do things you aren't unless you constantly say this will not be happening. (A good example of this is ' the patients adult DC will let in the carer four times daily, while knowing the DC to be at work. It makes it appear care is being provided which can't actually happen without the interim step of a key safe being fitted, but allows that person to close the case.)

You have to chase and be a nuisance (the crying baby gets the milk) or step back totally, as unfortunately half way measures will just prolong the current situation until something dramatic enough happens to bring it to a head again. Either is reasonable in your circumstances.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 30/12/2023 11:08

Remmy123 · 29/12/2023 23:12

his feet are also rotten and blistered with open sores and I really struggled to treat them today felt totally useless and very overwhelmed

You must NOT even try. You are not his nurse, those are diabetic ulcers and won't get better without his wholehearted compliance.

Make that call to SS and to his GP. Be very clear you absolutely will not be any part of his care regime. He needs professional help not a daughter run ragged and resentful because of his behaviour.

Put yourself first.

GoodOldEmmaNess · 30/12/2023 11:34

That is such a helpful post, @Elleherd. Thank you. I am in a similar position with my dad (not so severe, as no alcohol abuse) but broadly similar, and complicated with cognitive impairment which means that he engages intermittently, refuses a lot of help etc - allowing care professionals to write him off their workload. Your post is so clear and informative. xx

Remmy123 · 30/12/2023 11:38

@Elleherd thank you for taking the time to write to me that's so helpful!! Will refer back to this and other advice when I call SS

@SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth thank you - after looking up diabetic feet I'm concerned he will end up an amputee

not even sure he cares I asked what the sores were and he said he had no idea - he must know it's from his unmanaged diabeties!

OP posts:
Remmy123 · 30/12/2023 11:39

@GoodOldEmmaNess sorry to hear you are in a similar boat to me it's depressing

OP posts:
countrygirl99 · 30/12/2023 11:46

Things to remember:

  1. if he has capacity he has the right to make crap decisions. If he hasn't social services are the best people to step in.
  2. you can't control someone else's decisions/actions, only your own response to them.
  3. you can't pour from an empty cup and you need to take care of yourself.
  4. on the same lines as 3 remember aircraft safety briefings tell you to put on your own oxygen mask before helping other people.
  5. if he really doesn't have much money he won't have to pay for carers. If he does you are entitled to tell him not to be selfish.

The Elderly Parents board is under Other and there is loads of experience there.

Remmy123 · 30/12/2023 19:10

Thanks so much.

I went earlier more feaces on the carpet - he hasn't eaten in days just drinking cider and wondering why he feels so tired ffs

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page