Second wave feminism...

[CurlewKate]

Anyone else on here a second wave feminist- or am I the only one?

Here I am. And often wonder where is everyone. What about women in Iran? FGM?

Why not have a look at the feminist boards?

I'm a Feminist. But I don't know which wave.

Is liberal feminism 3rd wave?
I’d consider that I’m more aligned to 2nd wave.

@comfyoldcardi "Why not have a look at the feminist boards?"

Because I hate the idea of feminism being put in a box.

It isn't the feminists that put it in the box. Mumsnet decided it had to be put in a box. Two separate boxes in fact.
I still recommend you nip over there and have a look. There are some really brilliant women on those boards.
I have learned so much from those brave, clever and articulate women.

Hello.

Feminism is so misunderstood and maligned these days that women either don't want to be thought of as one, or think we don't need it any more.

Or they don't look at the bigger picture, and you get the “ Well, I've never experienced misogyny” (therefore it doesn't exist or it doesn't matter) attitude.

The modern liberal form of it now centres men, ie isn't Feminism.

@comfyoldcardi I'm sorry- I didn't explain myself properly. I love it over there. But I was hoping there are more like me out in the wild. I'm a little shaken by being described as old fashioned and rabid for expressing incredibly mild feminist views!

See, i dont know what second wave means. I used to describe myself as feminist but I find it seems to be very intellectual and i havent got time to read different theories and align with one.

I don't know who has used those words to describe your views. I don't know what your views are, but if you have been on MN for a while and read the feminist boards, I am sure you are well aware of the history of the naughty corner and the pressure from many posters to immediately insist MN moves any discussion of women's rights to the feminist boards.
So you are probably on a hiding to nothing, but I wish you luck.

If you try to discuss feminist issues “out in the wild” then inevitably the thread will get reported & moved to the feminism boards, even if the OP asks for it not to be.

Got to keep those pesky feminists contained!

You were quicker than me @comfyoldcardi

For me it is about paying attention. Which charities I support, which causes I donate to, for example.

Only because I am recovering from a tummy bug and am distracting myself with MN and not doing anything else!

I think you would have to define 2nd wave feminism. I thought we were in 3rd wave, but also rapidly going backwards as women's sex based rights are being dismantled at an alarming rate.
The worst thing in my view is the sheer number of women who could not care less about women's rights and are all about pandering to men.
I wonder how long it will take for this thread to be reported and moved.

I think, OP, that the poster who called you a 'rabid second waver' admitted that was a lazy characterisation - she'd got the impression somehow that you were a 'separatist' anti-male type. Probably not worth dwelling on too much!

I don't particularly think about my feminism in terms of 'waves'. Just using the definitions in the (doubtless very oversimplified) 'waves' paragraph of the Wikipedia page:
1st: women's suffrage movements of the 19th and early-20th centuries, promoting women's right to vote
2nd: 'womens liberation' which began in the 1960s and campaigned for legal and social equality for women
3rd: from about 1992, 'characterized by a focus on individuality and diversity'
4th: from about 2012, combatting sexual harassment, violence against women and rape culture, best known for 'me to'.

So.... we're all massively in the debt of the 1st and second wavers. I'm 62 and rode the crest of their waves! I was able to become a scientist, it wasn't till part way through my PhD when I realised how recent my apparent equality was and that it wasn't yet all done and dusted. It wasn't all about me, "I'm all right, Jill" didn't cut it. And their work isn't finished yet, certainly not globally.

The third wave rather passed me by at the time. There's such a mix of ideas in there, some very worthwhile and valid, others far less so.

Fourth wave - well what woman isn't on board with combatting VAGW etc?

The focus of my thoughts doesn't particularly fit into any one of these. It's about how to achieve true egalitarianism. This requires a clear understanding of what does and doesn't matter. 'Gender' - stereotypes and rules around how the two sexes should behave and present can get in the bin. That's not the way to liberation for all women (and men). Sex, the similarities and differences between women and men matters. How do we deal with the structural sexism arising from the fact that men are typically stronger and more aggressive and accustomed to being 'the first sex', but also completely and utterly crap at childbearing?

For me, sex does not matter the majority of the time, but when it matters, it really matters. That means understanding when women need particular measures enshrined in law to ensure their privacy, dignity, safety when vulnerable - so when undressing, sleeping, for example. I would also add that women's biology needs to be understood and protections should be in place around childbirth, sports, to name but two.

I’m an 80s vintage feminist. That’s all. Doesn’t include men.

I'm a 2nd wave feminist. As was my mum before me.

I am heartened to see so many out and about (here, elsewhere) and I'm sadly and angrily disappointed that a lot of the work we did, over many years and with many difficulties, is being rolled back without a thought. But there it is.

PP asked about Iran - I'm not really up on Iran but i do follow and support RAWA (Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) where i can. Which is often just spreading the word.

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA)

Second wave feminist here, enjoying the rise of fourth wave! Third wave can jog on.

I’m a feminist and writers like Betty Frieden and Gloria Steinem are hugely influential to me, so perhaps that makes me a bit second-wavey.

My daughters aged 14 and 15 would call themselves feminists too, and sometimes they tut and roll their eyes at some of my views. But we can have really interesting discussions about our perspectives and I really hope I’ve given them an awareness that feminism isn’t just about their own (privileged) lives but about giving voice to women on the margins of our society and across the world. I feel really passionate about that.

when they tut and roll their eyes is it about particular topics?
I've found sharing information about RAWA useful for certain things. It really pulls people out of their comfort zone and makes them think about situations that are far removed (hopefully) from our comfortable lives.

Thank you Brefugee that organisation sounds amazing and DD’s and I will take some time to find out more. I completely agree with you that we need to spend more time thinking about feminist issues that take place outside our own comfortable lives.

When they roll their eyes it’s normally because (like all smart teens) they are super alert to any sniff of hypocrisy in their parents. For example, when I extol that emancipation is economic, they are quick to point out that I can’t be that emancipated because since they came along, I have chosen to work part time (albeit in a well-paid profession), facilitated by their very well-paid dad. It has also been noted that I have a considerably easier time in exercising both my profession and my ‘virtuous, voluntary hobbies’ because I pay another woman to keep house for us. Not unreasonable points, and I have to admit they do smart a bit!

We are not on dissimilar pages regarding some of the more controversial issues, such as gender identity. Although I can’t imagine many feminist mothers and daughters agree entirely on this. However, while they’re interested in hearing my perspective, I have learnt just as much from them and from spending time with their gender non-conforming friends.

Regarding my own feminist beliefs, I love being challenged, hearing other points of view and getting into really meaty, tricky discussion, especially across the generations. It keeps us all on our toes, doesn’t it?

@ErrolTheRednosedDragon thanks for that definition. For someone who is really a beginner on all things women's rights it's good to have an idiots guide.
I sometimes find the feminists boards intimidating. Only through lack of knowledge though.

I am a feminist but not a mumsnet version of 'feminist' I absolutely think there is so much to be done to decrease the wage gap, to deliver equal rights to women around the world. To outlaw and properly police crimes like fgm and rape. I think misogyny is very much a thing and needs to be addressed in a large amount of work places.

However I am not transsphoic and belive trans women need the same protection, therefore according to mumsnet I couldn't possibly be a feminist so honestly the blatant and rampamt transphobia that exists in what other call the naughty corner is why I avoid it like the plague.

I have no idea what waves of feminism are.