4 year old sleep is killing me......

[tempnameforadvice]

Slightly dramatic thread title but it's starting to become accurate.

DS4.5 has always been a fairly decent sleeper. We've stopped nighttime nappies as he was mostly dry, but after a month or so of dryness, accidents have crept back in. We now take him for a sort of dream wee at 11. That worked for a month or so.

He then started having the odd nightmare. No significant (or small, actually) life events or changes leading to this. Nightmares seemed to pass after a few weeks.

We're now at a place where he wakes 2-5 times per night. Most nights he's awake from 2-5am, or for at least 2 hours. He will call out for me or my husband, and give a variety of reasons why he's awake. Hungry, thirsty, temperature, needs to wee etc. none of these have proven to be true.

We have honestly tried every kind of behaviour to combat this - being super supportive, bed sharing, doing some gentle meditation type exercises, tiring him out completely during the day with big walks / playing football etc, doing reading, maths, writing to help stimulate him mentally, taking screen time to an absolute minimum, no screens after 5pm, no drinks after 5.30, and we have a very consistent bedtime routine.

We are exhausted. We also have a baby, who is a fantastic sleeper but who also wakes at least once a night for a feed. We were not expecting to sleep through for a long time with a small baby but we didn't think we would be pushed to the brink by a child.

His behaviour during the day is now awful. From a lovely, kind, slightly cheeky but altogether happy chap, he is now hitting, biting, kicking and screaming when he doesn't get his own way. I can completely tell this is down to tiredness but I simply do not know what to do.

If we don't get some decent sleep soon I'm worried we will turn into horrible parents that snap and shout constantly which won't help his sleep.

Any / all advice is welcome. There's loads more we've tried but I'm too knackered to type it. Well done if you've made it this far.

Also ignoring him isn't an option. It's a very small terraced house and if we don't go to him he will just shout and scream until we do.

Just to add - situation is not this bad during school term time. Not great but not as bad. Half terms and holidays are where we see it mostly.

What time are you putting him to bed? It could be that it’s too early and the sleep pressure is too low. Maybe try to put him to bed later consistently for 3/4 weeks to see if that helps - it did with my 2 year old. I now take her up at 8.30pm, she wakes once a night when it used to be every 2 hours..

@Wellthisisasurprise246 isnt 8.30pm a bit too late for bedtime?? He’ll more likely be overtired especially if he’s up during the night. Even my 7yr old has an earlier bedtime.

Does he still have a nap? Could you take him out for a drive after lunch so he gets a 30 minute sleep, it’ll reset him then you can put him down at 7pm for bedtime.

You need to ignore his demands when he wakes up, go in and say it’s sleepy time now and leave the room. Wait ten minutes before you go back in and repeat. Do not engage, simply repeat its sleepy time now and leave the room.

itll take a few nights but it’ll work eventually.

Is it worth making sure it's not something medical like diabetes? Just the mention of being dry and then having accidents at night.

It’s the new baby surely? Behavioural regression is a way of showing jealousy. My eldest had always been a good sleeper until younest was bron when she was 3.25. Her sleep went to pot, used a sleep consultant because I was on my knees with tiredness. He’s feeling insecure and anxious, that’s surely the root cause. Sympathies - it’s really hard.

"No significant (or small, actually) life events or changes leading to this."
Yes there is! Your new baby.
As @Comtesse says

You're right in that of course the new baby is a big change. There is honestly no other indicator of jealousy toward the baby though, at worst he is fairly ambivalent towards him. Surely if he were so jealous he was waking several times per night and losing 2-3 hours of sleep per night, there would be other examples?

Not necessarily? He now has to share your attention with the baby, but at night time the baby is (often) sleeping so he gets your undivided attention.

i don’t have any advice I’m afraid but just don’t dismiss the life-altering arrival he’s experienced as being the source of the disturbance!

It's a really good point, especially about the baby mostly sleeping at night. we'd considered it but probably not fully.

He is already screaming and being violent today, when usually he would be playing nicely. It's so difficult to not be super cross, especially when you're just completely knackered.

Any advice welcome!!

So bedtime is 7, he is often not asleep until 7.30-7.40 but that's after a book, cuddle, last wee etc.

He hasn't napped during the day since he was 2. For context he is 5 in April, so not a young 4.

He's tired, grumpy and having to share your time with a baby. Being super cross is the worst thing you could be unfortunately. You need eternal patience and calm and lots of attention for him with gentle reminders about behaviour.

This is a huge life event for him.

It sounds like his body has got into the habit of waking him up, and you need to break the habit/reset the biorhythm and teach him to resettle himself. I would first spin him past the GP to check there arent any health issues and then get tough on the night time wakings. If you are worried about the neighbours and crying, give them a heads up/ask them if they are going to be away for a couple of nights over the next week. Then maybe send 1 parent and the baby to a premier inn for the night, then just talk it through with DS and explain that everyone is getting too tired and he has to stay in his bed all night. If he wakes up he has to lay still and quiet to allow his brain to go back to sleep. You wont be coming to see him as that will wake his brain up even more. If he manages 1 night without calling out for you, he gets xyz. When he has done 5 nights he gets abc. Then tough it out

Thanks all. Really helpful stuff. I would class myself as a fairly intelligent experienced parent but combine that with post baby brain and little sleep and I find I'm not able to see a clear path to start to work with him to fix this.

For those who have young kids not long fry at night, (or anyone who's nighttime trained a kid!!)! Should we still be taking him for a wee at 11ish? I think he would wet the bed without it - again, he was dry through the night for a month or so but has gone backwards.

Baby is almost 6 months by the way so not a totally new fixture!!