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Original poster

Nativity Plays- What happened to King Herod?

76 replies

FirstFallopians · 15/12/2023 11:52

I’ve seen two nativity plays this year thanks to DC and my niece, and just realised the absence of King Herod in both.

When I was growing up( NI, 1990s) there was ALWAYS a kid playing King Herod at the start of the story, teeing up why Mary and Joseph were traipsing across the country when she was about to have a baby.

Is there a reason he doesn’t seem to be included anymore?

This isn’t a serious thread, I’m just mulling over the differences!

OP posts:
SunnySomer · 15/12/2023 12:03

I think it’s all diluted, partly because a higher proportion of families have no faith or follow a non-Christian faith, so a lot of nativities are more Christmas themed stories with fleeting reference to Mary/joseph/jesus and donkeys. It needs to be relevant and appropriate for everyone.
I personally have no faith, but I feel that by removing lots of Christian knowledge from our primary curriculum we make some parts of secondary education more difficult, especially English. So much literature demands an understanding of so many Bible stories to properly make sense. My current year 6 class blew my mind when they revealed they didn’t know any of the Old Testament characters such as Joseph, Noah, Joshua, Abraham etc. So, basically- it’s just that life changes. Not that Herod has become superfluous 🙂

Funderthighs · 15/12/2023 12:31

He’s been cancelled 😉

NigelHarmansNewWife · 15/12/2023 12:34

Eh? Have you misremembered the story? They went traipsing to Bethlehem because the Romans were conducting a census. King Herod came afterwards after the not-very-Wise Men told him a king had been born on his doorstep.

Nativity plays usually end with the birth of Jesus and the shepherds and wise men visiting.

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newnamethanks · 15/12/2023 12:41

Friends was shocked yesterday to discover her child - 20+ - didn't know about the rainbow, the dove and the olive branch after The Flood.

NigelHarmansNewWife · 15/12/2023 12:47

Lots of people don't know traditional carols or supposedly well-known hymns because many school assemblies don't have religious content anymore. I'm 50 and have been at weddings where I'm one of the very few people singing the hymns. I'm not religious, but when you sing these things over and over as a kid you remember them.

DewinDwl · 15/12/2023 12:50

Our school did a nativity play with King Herod not long ago. Kids and parents loved it and the boy playing Herod enjoyed himself immensely.

SoMuchSimpler · 15/12/2023 12:52

Herod wasn't really the most child-friendly character in the Bible!

DelphiniumBlue · 15/12/2023 12:53

I work in a church school, and most of the carols and hymns are modern, we very rarely sing the traditional ones any more. I did query it and it's based on instruction from the diocese.
We learned more of the old Victorian hymns in a non religious state school when I was a child( a long time ago, admittedly, I don't know what the case is now).

PuttingDownRoots · 15/12/2023 12:55

King Herod killing lots of babies isn't exactly a song and dance number...

CatamaranViper · 15/12/2023 12:56

Mary and Joseph et al were only background characters in our Christmas performance this year. It was a nod to 'the first Christmas' but otherwise it was more focussed on children with a magical map that took them to different countries and eras to see how Christmas differed.

CatamaranViper · 15/12/2023 12:57

PuttingDownRoots · 15/12/2023 12:55

King Herod killing lots of babies isn't exactly a song and dance number...

You're just not doing it right then

Original poster
FirstFallopians · 15/12/2023 12:59

Yes, I absolutely have misremembered the story! I vaguely remember something about a census, and Nazareth was involved?

It says a lot that my main takeaway from the story was the kitschy baddie.

OP posts:
Whatineed · 15/12/2023 13:00

NigelHarmansNewWife · 15/12/2023 12:34

Eh? Have you misremembered the story? They went traipsing to Bethlehem because the Romans were conducting a census. King Herod came afterwards after the not-very-Wise Men told him a king had been born on his doorstep.

Nativity plays usually end with the birth of Jesus and the shepherds and wise men visiting.

Edited

In the Gospel of Matthew the Magi visit Jerusalem to seek guidance as to where the king of the Jews has been born; King Herod directs them to Bethlehem and tells them to report back to him. However they have a dream where they are told that he wishes to kill the child so they don't return. They don't actually, visit Jesus in the stable the night of his birth either, they visit him in a house. The time of their visit is undetermined, but the fact that the massacre of the innocents included two year olds suggests it was some length since the birth.

So by rights that part of the Nativity has been "misremembered" too.

OP it was always a big part of the Nativity plays I was in, in the 70s (two years playing Mary in school, church and Sunday school) you are correct. I was even looking at a few old photos of a primary school Nativity with me, Joseph and Herod smiling together, post performance. 😅

CornflakesOnTheSolesOfHerShoes · 15/12/2023 13:01

I don’t think Herod was a feature of nativity plays when I was at school in the 80s and 90s - it’s not the most heartwarming aspect of the story! It’s the stuff of family legend that my grandfather, after sitting through one too many screechy carols from various little shepherds and angels was heard to sign “oh for an hour of King Herod”…

SoMuchSimpler · 15/12/2023 13:02

CatamaranViper · 15/12/2023 12:57

You're just not doing it right then

Show quote history

King Herod Lyric video- One bright star musical

Original by starshine music

https://youtu.be/Fx9J0julZQ0?si=fHU0H4Kua7vqIDGP

CMOTDibbler · 15/12/2023 13:05

I'm a child of the early 70's, and as my mum was an infant teacher I sat through nativity plays from birth until I could be left at home on my own (and even then I'd go to complete my yearly bingo card of all the things that went wrong). They never had Herod in, it all ended after the three wise men visiting.

MotherOfGodWeeFella · 15/12/2023 13:05

Herod didn't feature in the 70s Nativity plays I recall either. We were taught about Herod killing boys under two and that's why Mary & Joseph fled to Egypt. The two gospels with the story of Jesus's birth differ. I thought the magi decided not to show Herod where Jesus was because they realised his murderous intentions.

Precipice · 15/12/2023 13:05

I think it’s all diluted, partly because a higher proportion of families have no faith or follow a non-Christian faith, so a lot of nativities are more Christmas themed stories with fleeting reference to Mary/joseph/jesus and donkeys. It needs to be relevant and appropriate for everyone.

I think you're right about it being portrayed in a less religious manner, but it's intrinsically a Christian story. It's a story that's only important to Christianity. If you're not religious or you're from another faith, it's never going to be relevant to you and you may well often find it irritating that a school you think should be secular (yes, yes, 'worship of a broadly Christian character' requirement) is portraying Christianity as neutral and universal.

Wrongsideofpennines · 15/12/2023 13:13

In the film Nativity! the rival posh school choose to portray Herod at his most murderous and they have kids running round screaming while he pulls the head off a doll. Great way to add drama to the proceedings!

There also weren't any inkeepers or donkeys in the Bible accounts but they regularly pop up in school performances.

MeinKraft · 15/12/2023 13:15

I know!! He was the best bit! Ours had Augustus Caesar stomping around the stage for some reason.

MizzMarple · 15/12/2023 13:19

Was a Herod in the junior school nativity this year! Not in the infants, but they didn’t do the whole story, just some songs and readings. In fact I don’t think there were any kings either.

Inthebleakmidwinter2 · 15/12/2023 13:25

Isn't he the guy who killed babies? That's probably why.

OddBoots · 15/12/2023 13:25

PuttingDownRoots · 15/12/2023 12:55

King Herod killing lots of babies isn't exactly a song and dance number...

Puts me in mind of the song Dr Who is releasing this Christmas...

AppropriateAdult · 15/12/2023 13:34

Vividly memories of playing Joseph in our rhyming Nativity play aged about 7 and - complaining about having to travel to Bethlehem for the census - the immortal line "That Emperor Caesar Augustus. Oh, he has really fussed us!"

AppropriateAdult · 15/12/2023 13:35

*Vivid memories 🙄