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the80sweregreat · 14/12/2023 21:08

It's nice his been found, but was he originally kidnapped or abducted ?
I need to read up as I heard a news report about this and it sounded really bizarre
I hope he'll be alright and gets lots of help and they can find out what happened to him for all those years

whatausername · 14/12/2023 21:31

the80sweregreat · 14/12/2023 21:08

It's nice his been found, but was he originally kidnapped or abducted ?
I need to read up as I heard a news report about this and it sounded really bizarre
I hope he'll be alright and gets lots of help and they can find out what happened to him for all those years

Familial abduction so they could seek out an alternative living commune.

soupermum1 · 14/12/2023 21:33

It sounds like his mum and grandad took him on hols with no plans to return and get him into a commune. It was kidnapping because the had no parental responsibility and have been wanted by the police since 2017. I hope he is okay. Hopefully he will be reunited with his grandmother

DearCake · 14/12/2023 21:41

Quite a bizarre and incredible and sad case. Poor thing must be very traumatized.

YourNameGoesHere · 14/12/2023 21:47

I saw this earlier and am so pleased he's managed to get away but I feel so sad for what he's had to endure for the past 6 years. I also feel such sympathy for his poor gran bet when he reunites with his grandma she will never want to let him go.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 14/12/2023 21:48

Thank goodness he is safe.

Unwisebutnotillegal · 14/12/2023 22:34

That’s an incredibly sad story. Poor kid has missed out on so much normal teenage years with his mates. I hope they welcome him back and he gets to go back to normality

bellac11 · 14/12/2023 22:40

soupermum1 · 14/12/2023 21:33

It sounds like his mum and grandad took him on hols with no plans to return and get him into a commune. It was kidnapping because the had no parental responsibility and have been wanted by the police since 2017. I hope he is okay. Hopefully he will be reunited with his grandmother

The mother had PR.

Its still kidnapping as he was actually meant to be in the care of the grandmother.

DingDongBella · 15/12/2023 10:08

@bellac11 Where have you seen that the mother had PR, I doubt the grandmother would’ve been granted PR if the mother still had it?

DearCake · 15/12/2023 10:25

I thought the mother didn’t have PR?

it’s a very curious story….

fernsandlilies · 15/12/2023 10:28

Mothers keep PR regardless of who else also has it, except when a child is adopted.

if someone is made a Special Guardian they get enhanced PR and can overrule the mother, this may have been the grandmother’s situation here

DearCake · 15/12/2023 10:35

fernsandlilies · 15/12/2023 10:28

Mothers keep PR regardless of who else also has it, except when a child is adopted.

if someone is made a Special Guardian they get enhanced PR and can overrule the mother, this may have been the grandmother’s situation here

Thanks! I didn’t know that….

DingDongBella · 15/12/2023 11:32

This morning discussed it and said they understood the mother we not permitted to be in his presence so more going on than we are being told.

Candleabra · 15/12/2023 11:34

fernsandlilies · 15/12/2023 10:28

Mothers keep PR regardless of who else also has it, except when a child is adopted.

if someone is made a Special Guardian they get enhanced PR and can overrule the mother, this may have been the grandmother’s situation here

Is this really true? Even in cases of neglect, abuse etc?

Itbeggersbelief · 15/12/2023 14:16

It is not true, but almost.

Mothers can lose PR. Very rarely but possible. As fathers can lose PR, also very rarely and rightly so.

Special guardianship is 'enhanced PR' in a way if you want to call it that, but that is not particularly relevant in this case. I don't know whether mother has PR or not, however it is a criminal offence for ANYONE to remove a child from UK or retain a child oversees without permission from everyone with PR/Guardianship.

The holiday was planned and agreed so that's fine, however the failing to return is the issue. Permission is needed from everyone with PR even a father.. so the Special Guardianship is irrelevant to that extent.

What is interesting is that all the 'media outlets' are stating the same language 'mother does not have parental guardianship' - it would be odd for a mother to have guardianship - none of them are mentioning PR

notimagain · 15/12/2023 17:12

For those still following, piece late this PM from our main local regional paper (La Depeche), containing comments from the public prosecutor (that's standard format here, police don't normally make statements). I've been lazy and C&P'd it through Google translate then tried to edit out formatting glitches but there are no doubt some errors and clunkiness in the text so treat with caution.

Oh, and for info the area in question is well known for being a bit of a haven for those who like alternative lifestyles and also those to try and go off grid..

<< " Six years after his kidnapping by his mother and grandfather, the itinerary of the teenager from Manchester, United Kingdom, found near Revel, in Haute-Garonne, this Wednesday, is beginning to take shape. form.
This Friday, Antoine Leroy, the deputy public prosecutor of Toulouse, lifted a part of the veil on the story of this 17-year-old boy and how he found himself near Toulouse in the middle of week.
During his press conference, the magistrate quickly drew up the family portrait, in particular an unstable mother who did not have custody of young Alex. It was her grandmother who took care of it, after a conflict between the two women.
But, on two occasions, his mother had permission to take him on trips to Morocco. When she lost custody, she asked the grandmother again for permission to spend 15 days with Alex in Spain in the summer of 2017. She never brought him back in England, but left for Morocco. "This is where the English authorities considered that he had disappeared," indicates the representative of the Toulouse public prosecutor's office.
Journey between Morocco, the Pyrénées-Orientales, Ariège: It is in this country that Alex Batty spent more than two years. Then, between 2020 and 2021, he left North Africa with his family to come to the French Pyrenees. "His journey shows that he passed through Perpignan, in Aude, as well as Ariège. He passed through these departments but had no fixed attachment there. , notes Antoine Leroy.
Not speaking French, and living quite isolated, he was unable to tell the gendarmes where he stayed precisely. It was recently, a few months after losing his grandfather, when his mother suggested going to Finland, that he decided to stop this life of homelessness and return to England, with his grandmother.
"He understood that it had to stop." He then walked "four days and four nights", to where he was picked up by a young student who makes deliveries at night, with only 100 euros in his pocket. During this walk, especially at night "so as not to meet anyone", he ate what he found in the gardens.
It was the delivery man who brought him after his tour to the Saint-Félix-de-Lauragais gendarmerie.
To the Villefranche-de-Lauragais gendarmes who took him in, he said that he lived in a "spiritual community", not mentioning the word sect, but it sounds very similar. "During all these years, his mother and grandfather moved around with their solar panels and their vegetable garden," reported the magistrate, indicating that he lived independently.
To go from community to community, they traveled “by carpool”. They went to large houses where there were several families, arriving and leaving. All were of various nationalities: Canadian, Indian and worked on "the ego", but also meditation, with a distance from the real world. Bordering on the survivalist trend. But young Alex clarified that he had never been kidnapped.
During this life of homelessness with his mother and maternal grandfather, he explains that he never experienced physical violence in the communities in which he lived. But "he allegedly suffered sexual assault when he was little", indicates the deputy prosecutor.
Today he was "tired but generally in good health". Despite living outside of society, he is "rather intelligent".
Since being taken into the care of the British authorities, 'he has made contact with his grandmother.' His mother is probably in Finland, although this is not certain. He will leave tomorrow from Toulouse or Bordeaux, accompanied by the British authorities, towards England and his family.
For the moment, no judicial investigation has been opened in Morocco, Spain or France. Only the one opened in England at the time of his disappearance is still in progress.
However, the deputy public prosecutor of Toulouse indicated that investigations would take place in the three French departments in which he passed. "We're going to dig as soon as we have a little more. How is it that a minor can stay in France outside of all radars?, asks the representative of the prosecution.>>

https://www.ladepeche.fr/2023/12/15/disparition-dalex-batty-communaute-spirituelle-agressions-sexuelles-durant-lenfance-ce-que-lon-sait-de-litineraire-du-jeune-anglais-11644782.php

Iwishiwasasilentnight · 15/12/2023 17:15

bellac11 · 14/12/2023 22:40

The mother had PR.

Its still kidnapping as he was actually meant to be in the care of the grandmother.

Bbc news are reporting the mother doesn’t have PR

Itbeggersbelief · 15/12/2023 18:47

Where have you seen that? all the articles I've seen says she doesn't have 'parental guardianship'

bellac11 · 15/12/2023 19:11

DingDongBella · 15/12/2023 10:08

@bellac11 Where have you seen that the mother had PR, I doubt the grandmother would’ve been granted PR if the mother still had it?

Parents with PR only lose it when children are adopted. He wasnt adopted.

soupermum1 · 16/12/2023 08:48

Sorry, just going by the news feed that actually said that she did not have PR.

bellac11 · 16/12/2023 09:24

I think generally people dont understand that if an order has been made for a child to live with someone else (LA, family relative, under CO, SGO, CAO etc etc), that the parent does not lose PR

Parents only lose PR if the child is adopted, it severs all legal ties

There are some very very rare circumstances where a father might lose PR but its so rare, its never happened in 20 years Ive been working in proceedings, even with fathers who have been convicted of abusing the child.

So its not unlikely that journalists dont understand this.

Unless he was adopted of course

Itbeggersbelief · 16/12/2023 10:42

I agree. It's very very rare and should be so, especially because having PR does not give someone a right to see the child, and in the vast majority of cases where a loss of PR was considered but not ordered you can almost guarantee that section 91(14) was used.

Mother can also lose PR in very extreme cases, even without adoption, but so rare you're more likely to witness a rocking horse having a cr@p.

I think what most people are missing though is whether she had PR or not is almost irrelevant in this case. If someone else also has PR (as they do in this case), then you need their permission to take or to retain them abroad, whether you have PR or not.

It's curious language the media are using, I suspect it's probably what their legal team have told them to stick to for some reason or other.

Itbeggersbelief · 16/12/2023 11:27

Itbeggersbelief · 16/12/2023 10:42

I agree. It's very very rare and should be so, especially because having PR does not give someone a right to see the child, and in the vast majority of cases where a loss of PR was considered but not ordered you can almost guarantee that section 91(14) was used.

Mother can also lose PR in very extreme cases, even without adoption, but so rare you're more likely to witness a rocking horse having a cr@p.

I think what most people are missing though is whether she had PR or not is almost irrelevant in this case. If someone else also has PR (as they do in this case), then you need their permission to take or to retain them abroad, whether you have PR or not.

It's curious language the media are using, I suspect it's probably what their legal team have told them to stick to for some reason or other.

Forgot to say unless you have a lives with order then you an take them abroad for up to 28 days (unless there is another order suh as a PSO that prevents that) but you need permission for more than 28 days (if you have a lives with order)

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