NHS is absolutely appalling and I’m paying for this

[Dumbleyellowdore]

I know it’s been done to death but I need a rant.

My DS is 12 and every time he gets even a slight cold or cough he gets a hacking cough which lasts weeks and keeps him awake all night. It is so bad he coughs in his sleep. He literally coughs 24/7 and is exhausted.

This has been going on for 18 months. He caught a cold off his sister at the beginning of the month and has been coughing ever since. He’s had to take time off school and I’m worried about his attendance.

Over the last 18 months I have done econsult after econsult and only get telephone appointments for him and the doctors say he needs a full asthma assessment. The problem is there are no appointments. We have to books months ahead (only 1 nurse does it) and typically when the appointment comes round he doesn’t have a cough. Last time the nurse said there’s no point coming unless he has the cough. Come back when he has one.

I did an econsult last week saying he has the cough please can we see the asthma nurse so she can do the tests. I had a text back with an appointment. We turned up but it was with a paramedic who said he doesn’t do asthma tests and to book with the asthma nurse! What a waste of time.

I rang the doctors and explained what had happened. Said DS has the cough and can he please see the asthma nurse. Was told next appointment in February.

What sort of broken system is this? I am so sick of being forced to pay into this system every month from my pay and I can’t even get my son the appointment he needs. It’s disgusting.

I just don’t know what to do any more. I work with doctors and they have said it sounds like DS needs an inhaler which needs to be prescribed. They have told me a GP can prescribe this and it doesn’t have to be an asthma nurse. Unfortunately the doctors I work with are not GPS so they can’t help.

After another night of none of us getting any sleep due to the constant coughing I just don’t know what to do.

Can you change GP surgery? This one sounds awful. Surely another can't be much worse. If not call 111 and try and get an appointment with another GP.

Insurance is based on risk. If you have had cancer before you are unlikely to get insurance for having cancer returning.

But your system would lead to that. You can’t be so ignorant or naive you don’t see that.

Hi OP, have you tried a private GP? From a quick online search I see fees start quite low (£59 from Bupa). Perhaps it's something you might want to look into?
I also see that Boots and Superdrugs offer asthma services where you fill a form online and a GP reviews it and issues the prescription (both options not ideal, I know, and I don't know your financial circumstances, just trying to help...). Or perhaps you might want to ask a pharmacist as they sometimes work in partnership with private GPs...

Well, you literally are being forced. Are you asked for National Insurance contributions or does it just get taken from you every time you get paid? Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, has ever looked at the amount of tax they've paid and said "I really should be paying more tax." And if you really want to pay more tax, you can fill out a form from HMRC to make a special contribution to The Treasury. Funny how nobody does that either.

And if you have a genetic disease like cystic fibrosis you are stuffed.
My mum was shocked at the treatment my Aunt was getting in the US for the same condition she had. My Aunt got the minimum insurance would pay for. She died of her illness, my mum recovered.

Wealthy people though would love this. There would be a lot of money to make from introducing an insurance scheme into Britain.

It’s not forced. It’s a social contract. I have absolutely zero problem with paying taxes.
Other countries have different contracts. You could try them.
The ‘pay extra tax’ thing is so fucking stupid I’m bored with it. It doesn’t work like that - the social contract and shared cost is what works.

Taxes are going to be increased again soon. Don't complain if you have to cut back on some luxuries.

This.
@SarahShorty are you very wealthy? Or do you have shares in medical companies? Because if your answer is no to both of those you are arguing against your own interests.
If it’s yes, then you’re selfishly exploiting others, or want to.
Neither makes you look good.

OK, so how is this going to work? Is someone who is obese going to have to pay for any treatment they need regardless of whether it's linked to the obesity? If not, who is going to decide what is and what isn't?

Tories have raised the tax burden to the highest level since just post war, so yes, they probably are. I’m not happy about that because they are wasting it and siphoning it to their mates. Still better than the alternative. And still doesn’t represent of much as my income as health costs if I got ill without the NHS

It boggles my mine how different surgeries are in different areas. I haven't had any issues getting appointments (admittedly not with the asthma nurse) in my area, most have not been emergencies but if there's any doubt, I get booked in for a phone consult and then they call and make a judgement call then. Sometimes that's easier than talking about something embarrassing face to face! Not to mention, when I had covid I was really struggling with intrusive thoughts about dying in my sleep because I couldn't breathe. I spent nearly a week hardly sleeping as I kept waking with panic attacks. My doc prescribed me the basic inhaler which I'm sure was just to calm me, but it worked. I barely used it but knowing it was there helped a lot.

I'm really sorry your son is struggling. Could you move surgeries?

I expect you’ll be destroyed for saying that, but I agree.

All GPs run different systems. At ours, you are not allowed to go in to book an appointment, you have to ring between 8 and 10. If you turn up in person, they tell you to go home and ring between 8 and 10. There have been people standing outside the surgery on hold because you can literally only book an appointment by phone between 8 and 10.

If it ended up being a two tier system I am sure my DD would die.

I pay a lot more tax than that and didn't see my gp at all between 81 & 97. In 97 I had a small op. Since 1997 I'd had one natural birth and a few antenatal appts.
Then in 2021 I was diagnosed with BC and have had endless stuff since.

So 40 years with treatment only in 3 years. But I'm not counting. No idea if I'm in credit or deficit. I'll gladly pay the NI to ensure it is there for anyone's emergencies. That's how it should work.

I hate these threads and the holier than thou attitude of the NHS flagshaggers.

You can complain about the NHS and its shitty treatment of your 12 year old without being forced to a) submit a nationwide health service restructuring plan or b) disclose your voting history.

We DO pay for the NHS out of our taxes and we have almost no input into how that money is spent and what treatments are prioritised. If we want to opt out of it we have no choice. There are many fair and equitable insurance based health services.

GPs are small businesses, they decide how they run within the NHS contract.
The best surgeries are independently run. The worst are those run by one of the US firms. The latter one near us it is difficult to get an appointment. They are all about profit and do not want to see you unless they have to.

@FKATondelayo You think voters should be able to decide whether NHS money is spent on cancer or on vaccination? A crowd of people without the medical expertise about where money is best spent?
And with insurance companies you choose from the products offered. They still decide what they offer. So if you have had cancer once good luck getting insurance for the cancer coming back. And if you can't afford the enhanced premiums then tough. And presumably people without insurance get an incredibly basic emergency care only.
I know a friend who gave birth in the US without any pain relief as her insurance did not cover it and she could not afford to pay for it. You really think that is acceptable?

Record him coughing and email the surgery with the recording to be sent to the asthma nurse if this isn't an option speak to the surgery manager if that doesn't work contact pals

My GP diagnosed my son's asthma based on my diary of symptoms mainly.

He had cough for a few months that never fully cleared between viruses. Then one bad episode that led to referral by an out of hours doc to A&E where he was prescribed an reliever inhaler for a viral wheeze. The inhaler was reduced over time and as soon as he stopped he started coughing again, intermittent wheezing. At that point I started to suspect something more chronic, possibly asthma. It was 2021/2022 so persistent coughing was very noticeable with COVID fears!! I kept a diary for about 4-6 weeks (he was well in that time otherwise)and went to see the GP. I knew that she'd probably ask me to keep a diary so I just did that prior! He didn't have a wheeze on that day, but was coughing at night, and when upset etc. Based on his history and the diary, She prescribed prevention inhaler and advised really it can be trial and error.....you know if it works that it's asthma. So we trialled that.
A year later we trialled him off it and within a few weeks he had a virus and that caused another attack/flare up so he ended up sent back to A&E for nebuliser. So it's advised he is now staying on preventive. The only symptomatic times he was seen was for the two attacks and the GP really relied on my diary and tracking of symptoms otherwise.

His is very controlled and mild so far thankfully, and he will hopefully grow out of it.

I couldn't tell you if there's another more definitive way to test for asthma but it seems ridiculous the nurse wants a patient symptomatic to test them if they can't offer appointments for months!

I hope you get sorted soon.

I'm in ROI so it's a private pay per visit for me so it's a different system, although can still be a wait for appointments for some people.

I’ve been a GP for over 25 years and have therefore seen a multitude of changes in that time. Access to appointments has been discussed in meetings year after year, and we must have tried about 15 different regimes in my time there. Nothing works for everyone. Some patients want predominantly pre-bookable appointments that they can plan in advance. Some patients want on-the-day appointments for routine problems, some want them for urgent problems. Some want phone calls. Some only want face to face.

In general we have tried to offer a mixture, but inevitably there are never enough appointments to go round.

All the GPs at my surgery work very hard, couldn’t really work harder, literally from the minute we arrive to the minute we leave, which is 10-14 hours later, no breaks.

The fashion for league tables has led to successive governments creating multiple targets and boxes to be ticked. This is not a choice for GPs, it is mandatory, and takes a vast amount of time that could have been spent seeing patients.

The other issue is population, due to immigration and people living longer. When I started the largest number of patients registered per full-time GP was 2000. Now, at my surgery, it’s 2300. We are not allowed to turn people away if they live in our area.

Attempts at recruiting more clinical staff have not been very successful over the years.

Bottom line - too much bureaucracy (government led) and too many people. Neither issue has been addressed by governments.

Can you change practice? Our practice used to be like this, they didn’t really like having to treat patients and access was awful. Modality partnership - National chain and terrible.
We changed practices and now are fortunately at a training practice.
DS is 11 and has cough variant asthma. He has ventolin, seretide inhalers and montelukast. He’s currently poorly with an awful cough. I rang yesterday morning at 8am. They are obviously really busy so it took 45 minutes to get through and they had to put him in their triage list. They rang me back at 9 with a face to face appointment at 10. At 10.15 we had a prescription for aantibiotics and steroids.
The thing is, people die of asthma so they can’t fob you off. They have a duty to see an 11 year old with asthma with his symptoms in case something happens.

Of course they won’t, because it’s unworkable. However, as I said upthread, while millions of people take absolutely no responsibility for their health we can’t be surprised that the NHS is buckling.

But the current system is leading to the same.

People are not being treated, and are being left untreated.